Thoughts on Lothar Walther?

[Buck Fever]

I am building a 338 RUM on an action I have. I'm limited to a magnum case head and 338 RUM seems to be a sweet spot before you step up to bigger actions along with very expensive brass, bullets, etc.

Looking at it, it seems like the SAAMI chamber and a 250 grain Berger Elite Hunter will be able to make a CIP magazine length load around 3.72" COAL that's about 0.030" off the lands.

Finding someone to cut a barrel isn't the easiest thing and with big stuff and long barrels, it is never cheap.

Except I found the custom barrel page for Lothar Walther and it seems they can make custom prefit barrels with a pretty good price.

I'm looking at a 32" stainless barrel 9" twist, breach threads, chambered, muzzle threads, recessed crown and a profile I like for under $700.

I know some people dislike chambering LW barrels but if LW is doing all the work, it seems like a deal.

Some people think the type of barrel steel they use might be harder and tougher than typical barrel stainless. Maybe it could slow down throat erosion a bit? I've never heard anyone say it wears worse.

I haven't heard anything bad about their machining except their lead times might not be accurate. With Corona Virus, I'm not expecting anything to stay on schedule so not a huge issue for me.

Does that seem like the deal I think it is or should I look somewhere else?

Thanks.

 

[ShootMo]

It would be hard for me to drop seven bills and find that I'm dissatisfied afterward. But I DO understand your reasoning. Can you contact LW and ask if any recent customers have given permission to be used as references? It's a long shot, but before I spent the money with them, I'd try it.

 

[sable tireur]

Finding someone to cut a barrel isn't the easiest thing and with big stuff and long barrels, it is never cheap.

There are literally hundreds of good gunsmiths capable of cutting and fitting any barrel whether it's Lothar Walther or any of the other quality barrel manufacturers. There's probably a couple of dozen who hang out here who could handle this project for you.

Some people think the type of barrel steel they use might be harder and tougher than typical barrel stainless.

I have used 10 maybe 12 LW barrels without ever encountering any problems with threading or cutting the chambers. I've read where a few folks have complained about the steel but I've never had any reason to say anything bad about them at all. In fact, several have proven to be superbly accurate across a range of cartridges and bullet weights. But so have most of the other barrels I've used.

I'm looking at a 32" stainless barrel 9" twist, breach threads, chambered, muzzle threads, recessed crown and a profile I like for under $700.

This price is fairly run of the mill where barrel fitting is concerned these days. If you look hard enough there are individual gunsmiths who will charge slightly less but then again, the better gunsmiths who are in demand are charging more.

I don't order or work with pre-fit barrels at all so you're on your own there.

Good Luck with your project!

 

[Buck Fever]

I'm kind of surprised that this got moved. I am asking about a barrel for ELR.

Here is a video I have found:



It doesn't say if LW did the threading and chambering but it's a 1 mile milk jug and seems to be pretty accurate (not knowing the conditions).

The same guy had another LW barrel in a 6.5*284 and also hit the 1 mile milk jug with that:

 

[Buck Fever]

I might be too picky but the gunsmiths I would consider are the ones that do competitive bench rest guns. They are harder to find than the gunsmiths in my area that would probably do fine for a .30-06 for 400 yard deer.

I have one local that has a good reputation but I asked about what I wanted and instead of a barrel he wanted to sell me a complete custom rifle with a different action and stock.

Some companies that do prefit barrels like PVA seem to be working near that bench rest level of precision and LW seems to be on that level or beyond. I saw a video of their German factory where they have a robotic arm loading a CNC lathe to do barrel work one at a time. It seems over the top but if the US factory is automated like that and is really good about machining concentric chambers, it seems worth considering.

 

[shortgrass]

I don't see LW listed on any BR equipment list............ Your posts sound more like you're trying to convince yourself instead of gathering the opinions of others, who actually do barrel fitting. You never mention what action you want to use, or what stock / trigger/ optics you will be using. You seem to be hung-up on automation, also. There's nothing wrong with the 'smiths that use CNC to chamber with. But, after having spent 45 yrs. in manufacturing machining, I feel confident in saying that "automation" doesn't necessarily mean better. many times it just means faster or at lower overall cost, as the cost of en employee has been replaced with a one time cost of a machine. LW makes a OK barrel, but I see no true competitors using them. Ya', a good barrel and barrel fitting is important, but there's a lot more to hitting a milk jug at a mile. Pre-fits are manufactured to screw onto every action that they are made for. In my book, that is far from a custom, one on one fit.

 

[Buck Fever]

Automation can be good or bad. Some CNC made barrels are racked in big pallets so a CNC machining center can chamber and thread them at the highest rate possible with little regard for quality.

When they do them one at a time and use a robot arm to load the machine they are either extremely focused on consistency or they are doing mass production wrong.

I probably am trying to convince myself because I don't see a lot of American opinions on LW barrels and the small amount is either very positive from shooters, occasionally I see people saying they got a poor barrel but LW replaced it, sometimes gunsmiths say the steel machines fine, sometimes they say it takes a long time and sometimes they say chamber quality sucks (it sounds like carbide reamers at low rpm can do that).

My preference for a bench rest gunsmith is because I don't want to risk screwing up a good blank with poor machining.

Considering the quality of rifle blanks, Lothar Walther invented the button rifling process. I have to believe their quality is going to be above average for button rifle blanks. That group includes Rock Creek, Criterion, Wilson, Green Mountain and others. I have heard that a Green Mountain barrel will shoot well if the machining is done right and I have a Criterion that shoots very well.

If the blank is as good as my Criterion and the machining is approaching bench rest quality, it should be **** good.

I'm just trying to see if there is anything out there suggesting that I won't get that.

I don't think it matters much but it will be going in an American Rifle Company Archimedes action and a Xylo chassis that takes CIP length magazines. My action is bought and paid for. My chassis should be ready soon.

 

[Savage 12BVSS]

I have a LW match barrel they built for me in a special profile and chambered for a specific OAL 260 cartridge to fit the magazine of a short action with 2.900 magazine length. Took a while, if I remember correctly 6 weeks to arrive from Germany. It shoots lights out and is easy to load for, it will shoot two's with an accubond or matchking bullet and I'm very pleased with it. Cleans with very few patches and have no regrets at all. I have noticed that it has about the same round count as a 7mm-08 McGowen barreled rifle, I have had to chase the throat about .003 on the McGowen but the LW still hasn't moved. Wasn't a big deal to me either way but they are similar fps and rounds fired so maybe they are a tad harder. I never base my barrel choices on what competition shooters are using, the LW was suggested by my gunbuilder I deal with a lot. Dave

 

[matt_3479]

My shooting partner is working with lw now and will be receiving a few barrels for 4-5 different shooters to try in multiple chamberings! At least 1 7mm, 1 6mm, 1 6.5 mm. I don't know what the other bbls will be. As far as I know the 7 will be a 7 wsm for an f-class build, the 6 is a toss between the 6mm creed or 6 gt, and the 6.5 will be a 6.5 creed. If he has a spare barrel by the time these shooters get there's I'll chamber one up to test as well. Fingers crossed on another spare 6mm bbl!

 

[Savage 22-243 AI]

I am building a 338 RUM on an action I have. I'm limited to a magnum case head and 338 RUM seems to be a sweet spot before you step up to bigger actions along with very expensive brass, bullets, etc.

Looking at it, it seems like the SAAMI chamber and a 250 grain Berger Elite Hunter will be able to make a CIP magazine length load around 3.72" COAL that's about 0.030" off the lands.

Finding someone to cut a barrel isn't the easiest thing and with big stuff and long barrels, it is never cheap.

Except I found the custom barrel page for Lothar Walther and it seems they can make custom prefit barrels with a pretty good price.

I'm looking at a 32" stainless barrel 9" twist, breach threads, chambered, muzzle threads, recessed crown and a profile I like for under $700.

I know some people dislike chambering LW barrels but if LW is doing all the work, it seems like a deal.

Some people think the type of barrel steel they use might be harder and tougher than typical barrel stainless. Maybe it could slow down throat erosion a bit? I've never heard anyone say it wears worse.

I haven't heard anything bad about their machining except their lead times might not be accurate. With Corona Virus, I'm not expecting anything to stay on schedule so not a huge issue for me.

Does that seem like the deal I think it is or should I look somewhere else?

Thanks.

O

 

[Savage 22-243 AI]

LW barrels last a long time. I had the 22-250AI and a 243AI without any problems with very high round counts on each barrel and very accurate. Only problem might be the weight! My medium weight varmint was heavier than a heavy varmint barrel. And straight 1" barrel was couple of pounds heavier than a Brux or Douglas straight 1" blank. Check barrel weight and order the right contour for your build.

 

[sable tireur]

I probably am trying to convince myself because I don't see a lot of American opinions on LW barrels and the small amount is either very positive from shooters, occasionally I see people saying they got a poor barrel but LW replaced it, sometimes gunsmiths say the steel machines fine, sometimes they say it takes a long time and sometimes they say chamber quality sucks (it sounds like carbide reamers at low rpm can do that).

We can chew on this until our jaws are tired and we've exhausted all of the verbiage available for this topic. But there are some simple answers to some of your musings.

Much of what LW stresses in their sales is the 'pre-fit' barrels whether for Mausers or Remington M700s. A fairly large number of Americans believe that they are gifted with the ability to make a fine rifle from parts accumulated on the internet and LW is right in that supply chain for them. Add a drop in stock complete with bedding block, a drop in trigger, and a simple scope set up and there you have it! A truly American DIY rifle.

LW also manufacturers for the OEM sector of the primary rifle manufacturing market. That means that the typical American will not know who the manufacturer of his barrel is and will assume it's the primary maker. This lends itself to the lack of opinions on barrel quality since the owner knows not who made that particular barrel. This is also the primary segment of LW profits, not the one-off or the pre-fits.

My preference for a bench rest gunsmith is because I don't want to risk screwing up a good blank with poor machining.

This is simply a terminology dilemma. In general, most folks think that the term 'benchrest' instantly implies the absolute highest quality and a never fail barrel or rifle, and you will shoot little tiny groups in the .1s or .2s no matter what else takes place. But in reality, for every 'benchrest gunsmith' whose name appears on the lists for the competitions, there are dozens who subscribe to and utilize the very same techniques and tooling with similar or more experience than those guys called 'benchrest' gunsmiths. The difference is that their names never make the list of gunsmiths for competitions.

I'm just trying to see if there is anything out there suggesting that I won't get that.

I am not a cheerleader for any component manufacturers at all. I have my preferred list of suppliers, we all do, those that have proven to be dependable throughout the years, that I rely on. I willingly suggest them whenever asked for an opinion. Out of the thousands of barrels I've threaded and chambered, I've returned exactly three. Two to one supplier (in 15 years) and one I just plain sent back to another in complete rejection (client supplied). I have accepted LW as a supplied barrel and I will continue to use one of the many barrels manufactured in the State of Wisconsin also.

Enjoy!

 

[sable tireur]

Only problem might be the weight! My medium weight varmint was heavier than a heavy varmint barrel. And straight 1" barrel was couple of pounds heavier than a Brux or Douglas straight 1" blank.

Hopefully I am misreading what you've written or I'm not understanding how you wrote this.

On average, when comparing barrels of the same length, contour and bore size, they will weigh very nearly the same (within a couple of ounces). Change any one of the variables and you will discern a difference in weight. The only weight difference I've noted is when someone tries to compare Carbon Fiber barrels to the same contour and length of steel. Dan Lilja used to have a chart or conversion formulas to figure this out before ordering a barrel.

 

[Buck Fever]

It will be heavy for sure.

As I said above, I'm looking for ELR performance, not something to pack around.

LW's custom barrel page says it will be 8.9 lbs. I think my action is around 3, a scope is about 2 and the chassis is a little over 4 I think. That looks like 18-19 lbs total which should help with recoil but I should be able to case it up with some ammo for about 35 lbs which is manageable compared to most serious ELR rigs.

For some reason chassis weights are becoming a big thing for competition shooters. I would rather put the weight in the barrel.