This Should Make Some Heads Spin

Light bullets at warp speed, That's right in my wheel house and the Needmoor well, See for yourself, I have read this book and that section is what made me the speed freak I am today and while it is dated there is still tons of great info in it


I don't disagree with anything he said but wish he would have paid more credence to wind drift. With today's laser rangefinders and precise turrets, range is easy to deal with. Wind, on the other hand offers a bunch more variables and any advantage a cartridge has in wind drift is welcome.

He also doesn't really talk about the overall package. Trajectory, wind drift, recoil, and barrel life. For most folks, a 7mm Rem Mag or similar is about all the recoil they can shoot well without developing a flinch.

I personally like a balance of recoil, wind resistance, barrel life and availability. I like shooting one cartridge exclusively because it makes me intimately familiar with its data. For me, that's the 6.5 Creedmoor.

This business about cartridge X being flatter than cartridge Y…. Who cares?

John
 
I don't disagree with anything he said but wish he would have paid more credence to wind drift. With today's laser rangefinders and precise turrets, range is easy to deal with. Wind, on the other hand offers a bunch more variables and any advantage a cartridge has in wind drift is welcome.

He also doesn't really talk about the overall package. Trajectory, wind drift, recoil, and barrel life. For most folks, a 7mm Rem Mag or similar is about all the recoil they can shoot well without developing a flinch.

I personally like a balance of recoil, wind resistance, barrel life and availability. I like shooting one cartridge exclusively because it makes me intimately familiar with its data. For me, that's the 6.5 Creedmoor.

This business about cartridge X being flatter than cartridge Y…. Who cares?

John
Whoop there it is ..............And we have our first contestant on lets make some heads spin
 
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I don't disagree with anything he said but wish he would have paid more credence to wind drift. With today's laser rangefinders and precise turrets, range is easy to deal with. Wind, on the other hand offers a bunch more variables and any advantage a cartridge has in wind drift is welcome.

He also doesn't really talk about the overall package. Trajectory, wind drift, recoil, and barrel life. For most folks, a 7mm Rem Mag or similar is about all the recoil they can shoot well without developing a flinch.

I personally like a balance of recoil, wind resistance, barrel life and availability. I like shooting one cartridge exclusively because it makes me intimately familiar with its data. For me, that's the 6.5 Creedmoor.

This business about cartridge X being flatter than cartridge Y…. Who cares?

John
I would think that if he wanted to do all the things you mentioned it would have been called "What's the best all around package " But it ain't , why dont you get ahold of him and voice your disapproval and who cares about flat shooting ? .............. I Do
 
I would think that if he wanted to do all the things you mentioned it would have been called "What's the best all around package " But it ain't , why dont you get ahold of him and voice your disapproval and who cares about flat shooting ? .............. I Do
Just depends on your chosen method. If you're a MPBR guy, a flat trajectory matters. If you're a turret twister, it doesn't matter as much. As for me, I use both. I zero at 100 then dial to the MPBR for my load and if my shot exceeds MPBR, I dial as necessary.

I probably won't bother to tell Ron my thoughts on his video because it really isn't worth my time to do so. From the tone of your post, it's probably not worth my time to respond to yours either, but here I am…😂😂

John
 
Light bullets at warp speed, That's right in my wheel house and the Needmoor well, See for yourself, I have read this book and that section is what made me the speed freak I am today and while it is dated there is still tons of great info in it


Impressive Video.. Really interesting how one guys opinion more or less killed an outstanding round.
 
Light bullets at warp speed, That's right in my wheel house and the Needmoor well, See for yourself, I have read this book and that section is what made me the speed freak I am today and while it is dated there is still tons of great info in it


My money would be on the .224 Clark. 22 caliber, 85-90 grain bullet at around 3500 fps. Less drop than a 50 BMG
 
Aside from all the ballistics talk, what got my attention was when Spomer was talking about wild horses and burros in the Grand Canyon and "removing" them. I hunt chukar in Nevada and there is(was) a big fight between the horse lovers and the cattle ranchers over wild horse populations on the cattle grazing areas. At one point ranchers were herding the horses with helicopters and shooting them. Needless to say, that caused a huge stink...
 
What? Wait! No 25-06! Come on, man!
A 25-06 with 75 gr. bullet easily beats the 220 swift.
Spomer should have put this line in the mix:

Cartridge Bullet/BC MV Drop Yd 600
25-06 75-gr./.290 BC 3700 61"

Thanks, ButterBean. Gave me something to stew over with my morning coffee.
You know the only thing half as crazy as a Needmoor fav is a 25-06 fan. 🙃
 
Just depends on your chosen method. If you're a MPBR guy, a flat trajectory matters. If you're a turret twister, it doesn't matter as much. As for me, I use both. I zero at 100 then dial to the MPBR for my load and if my shot exceeds MPBR, I dial as necessary.

I probably won't bother to tell Ron my thoughts on his video because it really isn't worth my time to do so. From the tone of your post, it's probably not worth my time to respond to yours either, but here I am…😂😂

John
Thanks BB for the video, kinda Ballistics 101 (w/o wind) but a good back to basics thing to revisit .
Concerning what Hondo said about the chosen method which is true I would add the area and conditions where you hunt can determine that chosen method. I strive to be set up for both methods as both have their place.

Where I hunt most of the time for Deer and Hogs in AR a flat as possible "point and shoot" (trajectory wise) rifle most of the time is best, I am talking about places that may have Highline R-O-W's or lanes that may allow in my area a 500yd. shot. For that hunting, ADVANTAGE = Flat shooter. I love my .257 Wea. or my 264 for that! In that situation I "range find" key spots for hold over, when a big Buck crosses you will not have time to range find him and then click up, trust me on that one.

For the area I hunted a great deal in WY. and other Western areas, the average shot can be longer and the area much more windy. Esp. if the area is more open then the Range, Click up and shoot comes into play more. And esp. if the yardage is 600+ yards and the animal is an Elk or big, I want a bigger cal. and a high BC bullet and all that. Then a round/rifle like my 300WM or my 6.5PRC with good click up optics matter.

Too many beginners I fear watch these "long range" shows and think you have to have a high BC bullet with a Click up scope and be ideal for their area when more often it won't be and esp. if there is a lack of trigger time.

To me if I had to have a simple chart: 0-400 yds. Advantage Flat shooter
400-600 yds. advantage flat shooter unless windy then BC, better yet a fast round with good BC
500-600+ BC
As always, a bullet that will expand and penetrate/terminal performance for the animal being hunted.
Long story short, only pay attention to everything! ;)
 
It's not the Gospel, I was just glad to see as big of a Needmoor supporter that he is that he actually shows the 270 being better, @HARPERC, I'm not a real big fan of his either but as I said it was PO Ackleys book that drove me to turn everything into a Swift with the Mule being the king of the hill right now ;)

I like em both. Both great cartridges, but I think it depends on its use. I don't believe one is better than the other in everything 270 mayne be better in some instances and not so much in others. Really gonna boil down to what your using it for
 
220 swift? Pffft… never heard of her..

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