This idea

shortgrass

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Mar 31, 2010
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3,313
Location
Weatherford, Oklahoma
The idea that aftermarket triggers "just need to be installed and they work", isn't always so. Yesterday, I installed a new Timney on a Weatherby Vanguard. The Vanguard was a wood stocked model that wears a .300 Win Mag barrel. The new trigger was fastened to the action with no problem, and the pull weight and over travel were adjusted. Sear engagement was good from the factory. After placing the barreled action in the wood stock, the sear wouldn't catch the cocking piece as the bolt was closed. The stock had a tall 'pressure pad' in the forearm barrel channel, you could see the barrel move as the front action screw was backed out. OK, the action is being tweeked by the overly tall pressure point. Using my barrel channel tool and a scraper I removed most of the pressure pad. (Some light barrels benefit from slight upward pressure to dampen harmonics.) Same result, so completely floated the barrel. Re-installed the barreled action, same result. I put a dial indicator on the action before I loosened any guard screws. Here's another problem, the bedding isn't nearly "stress free". With the action under stress because of the bed it gets fastened to, it had the Timney still "jacked-up" to where it wouldn't hold the cocking piece (and firing pin it's attached to). I removed the barreled action again, and increased the sear engagement. Re installed the barreled action, same result. Increased the sear engagement more, still no success. The proper solution here is to do a stress free bedding job, preferably using pillars. My client didn't want to spend the money for a bedding job. He had me re-install the factory trigger. I spent over 2 hours on that Vanguard. I didn't earn a thin dime! So the moral is, what's touted as "drop-in'" isn't always. especially when dealing with wood or a flimsy 'plastic' stock. The Timney I installed on a X-Bolt, right after that, required about an hours stock work so the safety would function properly.
 

xsn10s

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Mar 7, 2016
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3,412
. I didn't earn a thin dime! So the moral is, what's touted as "drop-in'" isn't always.
Man sorry to hear all that. I was just talking to my buddy, who is a machinist, last night. That's much like the difference between working with engineers and machinists/ mechanics. Things can work on a sample in the lab or cad. But life doesn't happen in a bubble. Engineers are great for efficiently designing something. But the making things work in real life is a different skill set.
 

nksmfamjp

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Jan 5, 2004
Messages
1,822
Wow! Did the client not offer anything? Well, I guess that is really none of my business.

Did you try a shim under the action bolts just to see if bedding it would work?
 

MagnumManiac

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Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Messages
4,162
I get enquires regarding fitting Timney triggers to Rugers all the time, knowing I have to grind or machine the bottom of the safety pivot pin to get them to work and quoting the time to do so and the cost always gets me a ‘nah, they just drop in, my mate told me so’.
Then a few hours later, or days, they call back asking if I can fix it and make it work after they have butchered the job.
I then decline the work.

Cheers.
 

shortgrass

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Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
3,313
Location
Weatherford, Oklahoma
Wow! Did the client not offer anything? Well, I guess that is really none of my business.
The client offered nothing, and made the comment that he "hoped it shot like it use to, with the pressure point removed".
Did you try a shim under the action bolts just to see if bedding it would work?
Putting a dial indicator on the action, while loosening the rear guard screw, and seeing .05"+ of movement told me all I needed to know about the existing bed. I repeated the process with the indicator only loosening the front screw first. Nearly the same result, lots of measured movement. The existing action bed was far from "stress free". I have seen this condition more than just a couple of times in the past 30yrs.
 

Teri Anne

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Joined
May 24, 2021
Messages
264
Location
Wisconsin
The idea that aftermarket triggers "just need to be installed and they work", isn't always so. Yesterday, I installed a new Timney on a Weatherby Vanguard. The Vanguard was a wood stocked model that wears a .300 Win Mag barrel. The new trigger was fastened to the action with no problem, and the pull weight and over travel were adjusted. Sear engagement was good from the factory. After placing the barreled action in the wood stock, the sear wouldn't catch the cocking piece as the bolt was closed. The stock had a tall 'pressure pad' in the forearm barrel channel, you could see the barrel move as the front action screw was backed out. OK, the action is being tweeked by the overly tall pressure point. Using my barrel channel tool and a scraper I removed most of the pressure pad. (Some light barrels benefit from slight upward pressure to dampen harmonics.) Same result, so completely floated the barrel. Re-installed the barreled action, same result. I put a dial indicator on the action before I loosened any guard screws. Here's another problem, the bedding isn't nearly "stress free". With the action under stress because of the bed it gets fastened to, it had the Timney still "jacked-up" to where it wouldn't hold the cocking piece (and firing pin it's attached to). I removed the barreled action again, and increased the sear engagement. Re installed the barreled action, same result. Increased the sear engagement more, still no success. The proper solution here is to do a stress free bedding job, preferably using pillars. My client didn't want to spend the money for a bedding job. He had me re-install the factory trigger. I spent over 2 hours on that Vanguard. I didn't earn a thin dime! So the moral is, what's touted as "drop-in'" isn't always. especially when dealing with wood or a flimsy 'plastic' stock. The Timney I installed on a X-Bolt, right after that, required about an hours stock work so the safety would function properly.
I've found that drop in's are like plug and play in the computer world. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. It's a buyer beware thing so just let the buyer beware. In my humble opinion his/her decision to not have the first class bedding job done should not have affected your right to get paid for your time, which was spent at their request. While I usually don't charge a customer for a 5 or 10 minute fix (Doing that builds good will) If something like that happened to me the customer would have been billed for the time spent. You have the rifle and there is such a thing as, A Mechanics Lien) In addition don't let a customer try to bully you. Being a woman a lot of men try that on me only to find that it doesn't work here.
 

Douglas A. Twitty

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Aug 9, 2017
Messages
96
Man sorry to hear all that. I was just talking to my buddy, who is a machinist, last night. That's much like the difference between working with engineers and machinists/ mechanics. Things can work on a sample in the lab or cad. But life doesn't happen in a bubble. Engineers are great for efficiently designing something. But the making things work in real life is a different skill set.
You are so right!
 

shortgrass

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Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
3,313
Location
Weatherford, Oklahoma
My point is, there are so many components advertised as "drop-in" that much has become out of control and the general public isn't wise enough to realize much of the 'advertising' is just marketing to increase sales. Sure, some things work just fine without alteration, but there are those that do not and need near perfect circumstances to function properly. Some magazines and magazine systems are another component that may or may not "drop-in". And, stocks are another one.
 

73driver

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Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
408
I bought a Vanguard series 2 6.5C last year and added a Timney after putting the rifle in a Bell&Carlson stock. Dropped in fine, been shooting it problem free for a year.
 

George Dean

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Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
183
Location
North East Ohio
I get enquires regarding fitting Timney triggers to Rugers all the time, knowing I have to grind or machine the bottom of the safety pivot pin to get them to work and quoting the time to do so and the cost always gets me a ‘nah, they just drop in, my mate told me so’.
Then a few hours later, or days, they call back asking if I can fix it and make it work after they have butchered the job.
I then decline the work.

Cheers.
In my experience: the only drop-in parts are generally OEM for the equipment. Very few firearm after market 'improvements' are drop-in. I have the hair loss to prove it.
 

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