The reason we anneal brass cases.

ButterBean

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I never said crimping doesn't affect tension or anything closely related to crimping not being effective. I said annealing doesn't have much if any effect on crimped cases. Annealing is for brass neck life and metal elasticity. Elasticity is the issue with tension when using bushing dies and non-crimp sizing dies.
I misunderstood what you were saying, All Apologies
 
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Raleigh, NC
I have found annealing to be more problematic for me than beneficial. Unless you have the necessary equipment, the point at which the brass becomes too soft is too narrow for most reloaders to gauge. I have even been frustrated with some reputable brass suppliers over-annealing cases from their factories. The brass needs some spring tension in order to secure the bullet in the case or the cartridge integrity will not reliably be maintained when loading from a magazine in the field. With the availability of bushing dies it is easier for me to regulate consistent neck tension with bushing size in relation to brass hardness. For those with a trusted process I applaud you and know it can be beneficial in prolonging brass life and accuracy, if that is a regular step in your reloading process. As long as I have a smooth/consistent seating the accuracy does not seem to be affected by not continually annealing, in my experience. But, if I get the annealing wrong it will be problematic. If I was a bench-rest competitive shooter and could carefully hand load each round I may feel differently but for hunting or PRS type competition I prefer the benefit of slightly rigid brass.
I came across this equipment a few months ago out of interest. I have no experience, but this equipment is sold for this purpose: Brass Annealing Machine | Annealing Made Perfect (ampannealing.com)
 

redneckdan

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Aug 2, 2007
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271
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MN Iron Range
I have used several methods and finally settled on an AMP. For me, it is worth it. I anneal ever loading, before sizing.

I get consistent shoulder bumper now. Varience seems to be in the area of .0002-3 Kind of freaky when I look back and remember chasing .002-3 variance a few years ago.
 

Opa-lopa

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Jan 22, 2019
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Ft Collins, CO
I have used several methods and finally settled on an AMP. For me, it is worth it. I anneal ever loading, before sizing.

I get consistent shoulder bumper now. Varience seems to be in the area of .0002-3 Kind of freaky when I look back and remember chasing .002-3 variance a few years ago.
You’re using a micrometer to measure headspace?
 

Marine sniper

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515
Location
Washington State.
Before you figure out whether or not you "need" to anneal there are a few things of relevance.

The most accurate way of keeping track of neck tension is an arbor press with a force gauge. .002 neck tension with different brass prep (tumble vs. stainless media) will have a very significant impact on the force required to seat the bullet. Most of my 338's require 50-120 lbs. of force to seat the bullet. I am still testing this / what is the sweet spot.

If you have your dies / FL sizing die set up for minimum expansion and sizing there is "probably" no need to anneal. I did an experiment with one of the 338 LAI. I took on piece of brass to the range with a press dies, etc. I reloaded the same piece of brass 10 times within about a 30 minute time frame and shot all rounds over a chronograph and onto the same target. The bottom line is there was no difference in velocity or impact on target.

Here are the notes on that test. NOTE* I did NOT have my force gauge yet- so my thoughts on neck tension were not measured with anything more than "feel."

10 round test on nk tension and velocity re: annealing. Rounds were shot and immediately sized and reloaded.

2983
2997
2974
2977
2993
2988
2985
2981
2989

ES: 23 fps.

The neck tension felt the same throughout the test- impacts on paper did not change due to number of shots. It appears there is no need to anneal with this combination.

FWIW I have a salt bath annealer, Benchsource and have annealed hundreds of rounds. Annealing has it place, but I suggest testing to see if you really need to. You may find you don't need to.
 

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Hugnot

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Montana
I spent less than $25 on my simple propane tip annealing after 3-4 cycles. I always outside turn necks and periodically, like every 6-8 cycles, turn them again using the same one of two (.22 & 6mm) RCBS neck turning tools because it is next to impossible to reset them exactly. I see very few signs of forward brass flow (just turning off crud) and at that time I am ready to toss the brass with the exception of .223 loads where I like to get over 15 cycles. The outside neck turning helps to get uniform neck wall thickness and prevents excessive work hardening caused by squashing necks, reducing radii then increasing radii with the expander ball. Frequently, I skip using the expander ball entirely. Achieving a suitable plastic state of neck/shoulder brass by annealing helps to provide consistent neck tension and extends brass life.

I try to get Lake City brass for my .223 loads. I have found LC brass to be extremely hard headed but well annealed at shoulder & neck, and take care to preserve this by standing that (and other brass) in water before toasting necks with a propane flame. If you shoot them more than 4X, annealing will help.

I avoid rocket ship loads and depending on round keep pressures within SAMMI limits with the exception of .243 Win loads. I used to write computer programs for smart science guys so I can handle stuff like this - just another process.
 

redneckdan

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Aug 2, 2007
Messages
271
Location
MN Iron Range
You’re using a micrometer to measure headspace?

On custom barrels, sorta.

I have the barrel maker do a stub gauge with the same reamer. I had my tool and die guy make a fixture to hold the stub gauge and an anvil shoe to fit an appropriate sized outside micrometer. This isn't really for measuring to a datum line so much as verifying consistency from one sized case to another. You could use it to establish bump from a fired case but it doesn't really give an actual length to the datum line, at least not easily.

Most of the time I dont bother anymore. I keep track of which shell holder to use with which lot of brass to get .002 bump and go to work.
 

w2ec

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Oct 8, 2012
Messages
5
For what it is worth, I have annealed for quite a few years with an annealing machine, a Bench Source Vertex. I have annealed 7.62x51 for my M1A, 30-06 for my Springfield 1903 and M1 Garand, 338 Lapua for my Savage 110 and 6.5x55 for my CZ-550 FS hunting rifle. I have reached the age where competitive shooting, ie expending several hundred rounds a weekend, is not longer feasible for me. I have plenty of prepped brass in each caliber to last me quite a while and even if I use it all up (highly unlikely) what little I'd need to reload wouldn't justify additional annealing. Therefore I no longer need my machine, I plan to sell my Bench Source. I admit I have used it quite a bit, but never had a single hiccup. It just plain works! Also, I keep my gear well maintained, and while many years old, with very little polishing of the main deck it could pass for new, no nicks, dings or damage. Function is and has always been flawless. Included with it are two bottles of Tempilaq, one for 650 degrees and one for 400 degrees, plus a bottle of thinner/cleaner for the Templiaq. The torch nozzles are included, but you'll have to obtain your own propane tanks. I've included a link to a youtube video that explains how the device works and shows one in operation. This video is not me or my machine, although my machine looks identical to it. You can see the propane tanks in use.
https://video.search.yahoo.com/sear...=d35efc5b8cc82071c0a96f23d732dc57&action=view

I've attached a few pictures of my machine, I'm asking $400 which includes lower 48 US shipping, AK and HI shipping would be additional over what the lower 48 shipping cost might be. Sorry, no international sales.
 

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J E Custom

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10,726
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Texas
I not sure how you came to the conclusion that it doesn't matter if you crimp as it very well does make a difference


A little off the annealing topic but Crimping can sometimes make a difference in the performance of a cartridge. I am near the end of a test (Just one more) to see if crimping can make an improvement in SD's. So far it has, in the cartridge I am testing. To find out if crimping an annealed cartridge can improve the performance, I intend to do a follow up test on a very accurate round that has been annealed.

The current test is in this post.

It speaks for it's self.

J E CUSTOM
 

WYOHTF

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Oct 25, 2020
Messages
167
Location
Wyoming
There is also a DIY version of this that will run about $15.00 in materials, plus propane bottle cost.
I’m aware of that, I’m a tool belt wearing, work everyday builder/remodel contractor with some skills in the metals department. I just have zero time to do anything like DIY for myself.
Until I can find competent help. It’s cheaper for me to purchase such items.
To many people want to sit on their rears, text, smoke or ........ sorry back on track.😎🤬
But I’m dang sure not gonna go buy the AMP system.
 

WYOHTF

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Joined
Oct 25, 2020
Messages
167
Location
Wyoming
Before you figure out whether or not you "need" to anneal there are a few things of relevance.

The most accurate way of keeping track of neck tension is an arbor press with a force gauge. .002 neck tension with different brass prep (tumble vs. stainless media) will have a very significant impact on the force required to seat the bullet. Most of my 338's require 50-120 lbs. of force to seat the bullet. I am still testing this / what is the sweet spot.

If you have your dies / FL sizing die set up for minimum expansion and sizing there is "probably" no need to anneal. I did an experiment with one of the 338 LAI. I took on piece of brass to the range with a press dies, etc. I reloaded the same piece of brass 10 times within about a 30 minute time frame and shot all rounds over a chronograph and onto the same target. The bottom line is there was no difference in velocity or impact on target.

Here are the notes on that test. NOTE* I did NOT have my force gauge yet- so my thoughts on neck tension were not measured with anything more than "feel."

10 round test on nk tension and velocity re: annealing. Rounds were shot and immediately sized and reloaded.

2983
2997
2974
2977
2993
2988
2985
2981
2989

ES: 23 fps.

The neck tension felt the same throughout the test- impacts on paper did not change due to number of shots. It appears there is no need to anneal with this combination.

FWIW I have a salt bath annealer, Benchsource and have annealed hundreds of rounds. Annealing has it place, but I suggest testing to see if you really need to. You may find you don't need to.
Wooowzerz,
I think a few folks have maybe touched on this a bit without actually bringing it up,
I’m talking about the arbor press with a gauge.
The other day I got the rare chance to search and study things, this time it was this very subject towards the end of my search/study. Arbor presses themselves are not that expensive and have many more advantages. But what I haven’t found yet is, how much does a pressure gauge setup that would be needed cost ?
I am a “ feel” type fellow with reloading, but am worried that arthritis and carpal issues may hinder my desicions.
 

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