The PRC die "problem"

BrentM

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You wont get that much sizing. The brass does not come out of the die the same size as the die. If it did all of this would be really easy and I wouldnt have to go through the trial and error process. If your reducing the base .003" currently then your fine. Most likely the chamber is already oversized if thats happening.
These are real numbers from my brass and another members brass. His chamber is already opened up. Mine are saami from Proof and xcaliber.
 

Alex Wheeler

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.003 is a lot to squeeze the base. Even with a .535 chamber and a .530 die you wont get that much with ADG brass. So you should never have an issue. But I would say your chamber is larger than saami to get that even if a saami reamer was used.
 

BrentM

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.003 is a lot to squeeze the base. Even with a .535 chamber and a .530 die you wont get that much with ADG brass. So you should never have an issue. But I would say your chamber is larger than saami to get that even if a saami reamer was used.
My chambers are saami and brass expands to 5315 after 4x on a standard die. Whidden pulls it down to 5295-530 on my spec which is 5275. They spring back about .002. This is adg and gunwerks headstamp. I’m testing hornady now and will have lapau this week to play with as well.
 

Alex Wheeler

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Your getting .0015" of sizing not .003". You should be ok so long as that continues and you dont crack the die which is a problem when you make it smaller than the solid web which runs about .530" on ADG. If you ever grow the web from warm loads you will have an issue as well. Take a case and load it at least 10 times with a warm load. If theres no trouble you should be good if the die lives. The numbers you need to care about are fired and sized. We talk about the .2" line because thats a standard place on a reamer print but its not usually where you actually measure the brass expansion.
 
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BrentM

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Yes you’re correct as far as the caliper. 5315-.5295 is what I see. Some are .530. On the other members brass they .5325 and size down to .530-.5305.
This is finished size. Clearly they size down under that and spring back so yes they do in fact size down below .5295. The die was spec’d at .5275 at the 200 line so there is no way they only size to 530 and stop. If that is the case I guess the die would be expanding. I don’t see that happening.
 

Alex Wheeler

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The problem with a die spec'd at .5275" at the .2" is that the brass is solid web at the .2" and measures .530". If the die actually measures that (it may not even if it was spec'd) then you will be experiencing very high sizing force as your trying to move solid brass. You wont move solid brass so the die is stretching. It eventually will crack.
 

BrentM

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The problem with a die spec'd at .5275" at the .2" is that the brass is solid web at the .2" and measures .530". If the die actually measures that (it may not even if it was spec'd) then you will be experiencing very high sizing force as your trying to move solid brass. You wont move solid brass so the die is stretching. It eventually will crack.
Thanks for the clarification. I think most people don't understand the .2 line measurement. The AW2 vs Saami spec page both show .2 line as .533 and .535 for reference. So in a general sense we should refer to the measurement being just ahead of the .2 line it appears. So basically just ahead of the .2 the case expands to the max chamber size during firing and then returns to a x state. X state is what is creating the sticky bolt lift and clicker issues. When using a caliper and measuring the max diameter of the case head it makes sense to see .5295-.5305 around that .2 mark in a properly resized case. If that is the number a person is seeing then the die has done the job of making the taper start at .530 (for example). If the case is .5315 (for example) then the die has not undersized that critical portion of the case that creates the clickers etc. The whidden die works well that’s for sure. Brings all the sticky brass back to shootable and back to 1-2x fired brass level mv, sd, es, and accuracy. So far it does a fantastic job doing what they designed it to do. I do have concerns this die will be too aggressive for aw2 spec.
 

BrentM

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Update: I shot my 3rd reload on hornady brass Wednesday. Measuring the web netted .5305 to .531 with most being 5305 at the widest area. I am using a rcbs standard bushing die to resize this test group. Upon resizing the die pushed the hornady right back down to 1x level and very little resistence compared to adg/gw brass. I have a feeling this is going to continue and think the hornady brass weight difference is in the web.

I just got my lapau brass and have 5 loaded for a test. I have 4th reload on hornady ready to roll, and have some 2x adg out of my other barrel that have proven to be good to go in the new barrel. I don't usually like to mix brass but it is what it is.

BTW- this hornady brass is zero prep brass. All I've done is grab 10 and reload. No trimming, no sorting, just anneal, size, and go. This is a 143 eld out of a 18" barrel.

PRC 143 Labradar.jpg
 

phorwath

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If you've got two sets of resizing dies, here's a poor man's solution... Required a side grinder with a metal cutting blade and submerging the die under water while cutting off the top and some of the bottom off a spare full length resizing die... If you own or have access to a lathe, even better.

Whidden made me three resizing dies for my 338 Lapua Rogue. Tried they're darndest, yet none of them were small enough in ID to sufficiently resize near the case head. I cried uncle and modified one of the spare resizing dies to resize my cases near the case head. It's a very special "customized", custom Whidden resizing die. :) Look's like I found it in a dumpster, but it works superbly. It's very adjustable. I adjust it down on the case during resizing just enough for easy chambering.

Look's like I should apply for a patent.

View attachment 226632
For those that may not have read this entire Thread, this Post and 1st picture is a continuation of my original Post #13, from back on Page #1.
Whidden Resizing Die Pic.jpg


So I just completed a modification to my cut-down case web resizing die. The one on the left, in the above photo. All the talk about cracking the base of the resizing die got me thinking of a way to avoid destroying my case web resizing die. So I took a spare steel collar off one of my resizing dies, cleaned the threads up and applied soldering flux to male and female threads, and then soldered this collar onto the base of my case web resizing die.

Here's the result:
20210916_125600.jpg
20210916_125626.jpg
20210916_125549.jpg


This steel collar is now on the base of the die, where it meets the shell holder on top of the ram of the reloading press.

Which means I now need to screw the die into the 7/8-14tpi threads from the bottom of the press, rather than from the top. Like so...
1st photo is a side view showing the case web resizing die threaded into the press, and the shell holder up flush against the base of my die.
20210916_125841.jpg


This next photo shows the case web resizing die from the top side of the reloading press.
20210916_125857.jpg



The press ram cannot be extended all the way to the uppermost position any longer, when using this case web resizing die, because the steel collar is too large in outer diameter to clear the underside cast body of the RCBS reloading press. But the full throw of the ram isn't necessary, because this die doesn't set the headspace from the case head to the case shoulder. All it does is resize the sidewall of the casings near the case web. It actually sizes about the lower 5/8 of my 338 Lapua case side wall.

No way can I conceive that this case web resizing die will split with this modification. I made sure the nickle based, lead free solder filled in the air gap between the male threads and the female threads, such that the surrounding steel collar now supports the base of the resizing die. But if this resizing die does split & crack, I'll report back on that.

I wish the collar didn't have a set screw hole drilled thru the side of it, which is visible in the third photo down from the top. But I've never owned one that didn't. I may go ahead and weld over that set screw hole, to provide additional structural support to that weak side of the collar. If this die and collar do crack and split, I'm certain the split will run right thru that set screw hole. Even with the hole in the collar, this modification results in a much stronger resizing die. A lot of extra support at the base of the die to resist the tensile force applied on the resizing die while sizing down the case webs.
 
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calinb

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So I took a spare steel collar off one of my resizing dies, cleaned the threads up and applied soldering flux to male and female threads, and then soldered this collar onto the base of my case web resizing die.

Great idea! The non-"Ultimate" and original hex Lee lock rings don't have slots or set screw holes.

Lee dies are a good candidate for this custom mod anyway, due to low cost, but lock rings are available separately too. Richard Lee claimed they always sold a bunch of them to users of other dies too.

I recently bought Lee 300 PRC and 30-06 dies just for this purpose and they came with the newer but still non-"ultimate" solid lock rings, but I'm too busy organizing my shop to work on them right now.

My latest Lee dies came with these rings:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1011199541?pid=334374
 

phorwath

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Those Lee lock rings are recessed for a rubber O-ring, correct?

The Redding steel collar I used isn't hogged out for any O-ring. Which provides some additional supporting strength.

I happen to own a welder. So I think I"ll weld over the set screw hole. Shoulda done that before I soldered it onto the body of the resizing die, to avoid any lead contaminating and weakening my weld. But I can build up some weld on the exterior of the collar and that will help muscle up that weakened side of the steel collar.
 
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calinb

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Those Lee lock rings are recessed for a rubber O-ring, correct?
Yes, and even worse, I just realized that the Lee lock rings are aluminum so welding another ring is best. Either that or make a new ring and cut tight minimum clearance threads on a lathe. If the threads are cut with no appreciable clearance with the die (just enough to permit installation), then solder would be optional, I suspect.
 
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phorwath

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Agreed. If a guy owned a lathe, that would be a better, and still cost effective option. But if I have to hire someone to fabricate the collar and turn off the threads, it could get into the cost of a custom resizing die.

Not owning a lathe, I did what I could with my own labor, parts, and available tools. On the cheap...
 
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