The old 25-06 Remington and 270 Winchester shot flatter than 6.5 CM

[Maol]

It appears that you are touting the .243, the 25-06 and the 30-06, then........you slam the .270 Winchester! WTH, what's that about??????????? I'd definitely put the .270 ahead of the .243 and 25-06, and....right there with the 30-06. Sometimes I just do not understand the logic in some of these replies???

Agree. They are all overrated by somebody somewhere. Pretty obvious 270 beats 25-06 in some way. Purpose matters. The 25 serves some better than the 270 for some folks.

At least the 243 is a nonmagnum short action. The 6C & 6.5 C beat it for most purposes. So does the 308 which generally beats the 6s & 6.5C, but not always. Depends on purpose. Purpose matters. At least there its a comparison of nonmagnum short actions even without stating purpose...

Figure we all get it that preferences are just that, and often have little bearing on the purpose, but may still come into play in the discussion. Generally I like short actions. In bigger caliber (.30+) magnums I would prefer a beltless long action. Saving heavier magnum actions for the the 'Real Magnums' (and beltless please). Those are my preferences. Everyone's differ. Some even think the short actions shouldn't exist. Preferences never end. Purposes are different, they are what they are.

How flipping hard is it to compare apples to apples? Nonmagnum short actions to each other. Magnum short actions to each other etc. Like the 6.5 PRC to 7mm, 270 WSM or all to the 6.8 W. Can we go head to head purpose to purpose. Apples to apples. Mt. Elk rifles to Mt. Elk rifles. Bean field rifles to Bean field fifles.

News flash, no one caliber, no one cartridge, is more perfect at every purpose than everything else. If we're going to have intelligent discussions re cartridges at least decide what purpose and compare similar cartridges.

Yes there are general purpose rifles. Thats a purpose. For some the 300WM is a GP rifle. Mine is a 308. It would be stupid to compare them. Yet it is done. Probably going on in some forum, somewhere right now. Stupid.

Rant mode off.

 

[gator378]

With all this love of the glorious 6.5, many long range shooters are using 6mm. But when it comes to hunting large cervids, I'll stick with .30s for insurance. 25-06, however unpopular, is a great cartridge. As is the 270. As for brass availability, if you can get it then I don't concern myself wether it's easy or not to get. After all, with the internet, how hard is it to get brass?

I will keep my 300 Weatherby. Fast and goes thump when it hits. Bigger the better.

 

[JemezDave]

Really. Live here in Colorado for 43 years killed many elk with a 243,25-06,30-06,338 win mag, aluminum arrows,300lapua mag,300 PRC and 7mm rum. Probably more-elk than the state of Kentucky. Shot placement not size of caliber. The 270 is another over rated cartridge.

A lot can be said of the .270, but over rated isn't one of them.

 

[ButterBean]

Agree. They are all overrated by somebody somewhere. Pretty obvious 270 beats 25-06 in some way. Purpose matters. The 25 serves some better than the 270 for some folks.

At least the 243 is a nonmagnum short action. The 6C & 6.5 C beat it for most purposes. So does the 308 which generally beats the 6s & 6.5C, but not always. Depends on purpose. Purpose matters. At least there its a comparison of nonmagnum short actions even without stating purpose...

Figure we all get it that preferences are just that, and often have little bearing on the purpose, but may still come into play in the discussion. Generally I like short actions. In bigger caliber (.30+) magnums I would prefer a beltless long action. Saving heavier magnum actions for the the 'Real Magnums' (and beltless please). Those are my preferences. Everyone's differ. Some even think the short actions shouldn't exist. Preferences never end. Purposes are different, they are what they are.

How flipping hard is it to compare apples to apples? Nonmagnum short actions to each other. Magnum short actions to each other etc. Like the 6.5 PRC to 7mm, 270 WSM or all to the 6.8 W. Can we go head to head purpose to purpose. Apples to apples. Mt. Elk rifles to Mt. Elk rifles. Bean field rifles to Bean field fifles.

News flash, no one caliber, no one cartridge, is more perfect at every purpose than everything else. If we're going to have intelligent discussions re cartridges at least decide what purpose and compare similar cartridges.

Yes there are general purpose rifles. Thats a purpose. For some the 300WM is a GP rifle. Mine is a 308. It would be stupid to compare them. Yet it is done. Probably going on in some forum, somewhere right now. Stupid.

Rant mode off.

At least the 243 is a nonmagnum short action. The 6C & 6.5 C beat it for most purposes.
What everyone forgets is this is all based on a piece of paper ( Ballistic Calculator) and paper don't mean much in the field and I'm not knocking you but comparing apples to apples ( Your Beanfield Rifle Reference) is also a moot point IMO, You can have a Beanfield Rifle in 6.5 Needmoor with a Nightforce Scope and every bell and whistle you can hang on it and it won't do a thing to make you any better of a shooter, In the end the rifle and or cartridge is only as good as you are, nothing will change that

 

[Frank in the Laurels]

The 25/06 & .270 have stood the test of time and no one needs speak for either, you do your job with a good bullet and neither will fail you...on the other hand that little fake, fraud and phony needs renamed,

6.5 NeedMore !

 

[Maol]

At least the 243 is a nonmagnum short action. The 6C & 6.5 C beat it for most purposes.
What everyone forgets is this is all based on a piece of paper ( Ballistic Calculator) and paper don't mean much in the field and I'm not knocking you but comparing apples to apples ( Your Beanfield Rifle Reference) is also a moot point IMO, You can have a Beanfield Rifle in 6.5 Needmoor with a Nightforce Scope and every bell and whistle you can hang on it and it won't do a thing to make you any better of a shooter, In the end the rifle and or cartridge is only as good as you are, nothing will change that

Would absolutely agree ButterBean. If you can't shoot what your shooting the debate is over. My rant wasn't over equipment or skill. I was only primarily ranting about folks comparing rifles without defining the purpose for the tool selection process.

The side rant was comparing rifles in a different class with each other. Again, skill with the tool selected matters, and with your bells and whistles too. If you don't know how to use them they worse than useless.

Next time the rant urge comes on me I'll try to be more clear.

 

[ButterBean]

Would absolutely agree ButterBean. If you can't shoot what your shooting the debate is over. My rant wasn't over equipment or skill. I was only primarily ranting about folks comparing rifles without defining the purpose for the tool selection process.

The side rant was comparing rifles in a different class with each other. Again, skill with the tool selected matters, and with your bells and whistles too. If you don't know how to use them they worse than useless.

Next time the rant urge comes on me I'll try to be more clear.

No worries, I do the same thing

 

[Maol]

A lot can be said of the .270, but over rated isn't one of them.

My point exactly. Somebody somewhere is running it down. It is about purpose. 270 is great cartridge. So is a 243. If I as selecting a short action nonmagnum factory supported 6mm cartridge Antelope it isn't the one I would pick and I am a total Winchester fan. Would a 25-06 work great? You bet it is a great cartridge, fast and accurate. Yet my preference is for a short action for my purpose. If I even chose a bolt action it wouldn't be a rifle with a relatively short accuracy life. I might even chose a semi in a Tac 6 for this purpose to keep sight picture and able to deliver a another.

I am in noway saying these cartridges are overrated in general. My point is other people are over rating them if they think that the 243 Win is a great elk cartridge, or a 270 Win is a great 1000 yard competition cartridge.

As I said purposes matter. They establish the basis for a comparison of the tool in the selection process, and enable realistic and honest cartridge, and even class comparisons. Preferences are just that. I prefer cartridges that hold accuracy for a long time. Others simply could care less. That's a preference.

Without stating purpose and comparing directly to a cartridge in the in the same class it is just arguing for arguing's sake. As I just said, I will be more clear the next time I rant, especially about pointless cartridge comparisons so I don't hurt anybody's feelings.

 

[ButterBean]

My point exactly. Somebody somewhere is running it down. It is about purpose. 270 is great cartridge. So is a 243. If I as selecting a short action nonmagnum factory supported 6mm cartridge Antelope it isn't the one I would pick and I am a total Winchester fan. Would a 25-06 work great? You bet it is a great cartridge, fast and accurate. Yet my preference is for a short action for my purpose. If I even chose a bolt action it wouldn't be a rifle with a relatively short accuracy life. I might even chose a semi in a Tac 6 for this purpose to keep sight picture and able to deliver a another.

I am in noway saying these cartridges are overrated in general. My point is other people are over rating them if they think that the 243 Win is a great elk cartridge, or a 270 Win is a great 1000 yard competition cartridge.

As I said purposes matter. They establish the basis for a comparison of the tool in the selection process, and enable realistic and honest cartridge, and even class comparisons. Preferences are just that. I prefer cartridges that hold accuracy for a long time. Others simply could care less. That's a preference.

Without stating purpose and comparing directly to a cartridge in the in the same class it is just arguing for arguing's sake. As I just said, I will be more clear the next time I rant, especially about pointless cartridge comparisons so I don't hurt anybody's feelings.

They are all good, It boils down to personal preference

 

[Wichasa]

I would love to see the "Creedmoor Craze" die out! While in it's own right a fine cartridge it's not the do it all Hornady claims it to be!
Like I have said My 6.5 X 284 is Faster..Flatter..Just as Accurate! Top it off with uninformed buyers and pimple faced sales people at the box stores you have guys believing all their sales crap! And heading out under gunned!
Then you have the idiots who claim a friend of their neighbors cousin killed an Elk
at 1775 Yards with one...BS!!
At this point I wouldn't have a 6.5 CM in my safe if it was Free!
I don't follow the pack!! The Fish and Game in Kentucky got it right.. It is illegal to
hunt Elk in Ky. with a bullet smaller than .270 dia.!!!

KABOOMSHAKALAKA

 

[Wichasa]

Varmint shooters are the only ones that really benifit from flatter rounds.

Lol. Visit the great plains states, put your eyeball and distance judging skills to the test and you'll see exactly why trajectory matters. I laugh at the hardwoods hunters who come to the plains and mountains and are absolutely flabbergasted...Archery is worse yet.

 

[ButterBean]

Varmint shooters are the only ones that really benifit from flatter rounds.

Everyone benefits from flatter shooting rounds, that point is really not even debatable

 

[RWE]

You guys crack me up....

 

[CMP70306]

So one thing I've always heard is about Hornady's marketing of the cartridge as the be all end all rifle cartridge however I have never actually heard Hornady themselves say it. How much of the BS surrounding the Creedmoor is spread by writers, bloggers and snake oil salesmen vs the actual companies making the rifles and ammo?

The best example I can think of the is the "6.5 Creedmoor beats the .300 Win Mag" that has been repeated over and over and over again. If I recall correctly I'm pretty sure the original marketing was something along the lines of "The 6.5 Creedmoor with the 140gr A-Max significantly beats the .308 loaded with 175gr Sierra Match King, providing a trajectory comparable to the .300 Win Mag with the 190gr Sierra Match King with less than half the recoil."

Per the trajectory chart everything about that statement is a true fact, the problem is that after playing whisper down the lane for a decade the only thing that remained to be spouted in gun shops across the land was "6.5 Creedmoor beats 300 Win Mag". With modern 6.5 Creedmoor being loaded lower for use in semi's and modern .300's being loaded to their potential the gap has widened considerably.