pitbull320
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2008
- Messages
- 161
Kirby the rifle looks awesome can't wait for range report
The New Raptor is hatching.....
- Thread starter Fiftydriver
- Start date
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Festus
Well-Known Member
Droolin' here...nice job!!
Festus
Festus
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
Kirby,
Is the action one piece, long out into the forend and then the barrel threaded on there? Or is it a sleeve around the barrel over the chamber? Is the action floating or still screwed into the stock? Sorry for the silly questions.
Steve
Is the action one piece, long out into the forend and then the barrel threaded on there? Or is it a sleeve around the barrel over the chamber? Is the action floating or still screwed into the stock? Sorry for the silly questions.
Steve
3fingervic
Well-Known Member
I was wondering the same thing. It looks bad @$$!!
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I'm sure the action is not two-foot long. My guess is solid barrel blank which Kirby machines and threads at both the receiver and for the forward recoil lug. Then there is a threaded sleeve forward of the front recoil lug which secures that lug to the barrel. No sleeve between the two recoil lugs - just solid barrel. The two Rem-style recoil lugs are visible in the photos. But we'll see if Kirby corrects my guess.
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MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
Very sweet Kirby 
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
The Raptor receiver is long, actually, the production receivers will come in a bit longer then this prototype but if you look at the pictures with the side view, you will see the conventional recoil lug in the relatively conventional location. Ahead of the recoil lug is all barrel, its just 1.350" full diameter for roughly 7". At that point you will see another recoil lug.
I have the barrels specially contoured and yes the forward section ahead of the front recoil lug is threaded and then a lock nut is threaded to sandwich it between the barrel and the nut, similiar to the Savage lock nut system, kind off....
Then the barrel tapers from 1.000" down to roughly 0.860" at the muzzle with a 30" finish length.
No sleeves on this big girl, all stainless steel!!!
I have the barrels specially contoured and yes the forward section ahead of the front recoil lug is threaded and then a lock nut is threaded to sandwich it between the barrel and the nut, similiar to the Savage lock nut system, kind off....
Then the barrel tapers from 1.000" down to roughly 0.860" at the muzzle with a 30" finish length.
No sleeves on this big girl, all stainless steel!!!
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
Well,
After working in the shop all morning walked out to the truck and found that the sun had come out and the temps had warmed up over freezing so I decided to take the chance and get some velocity testing done on with the new Raptor LRSS.
I had tested a version of my Hybrid throat design earlier. The design I am using now is significantly different and should reduce pressures even more but at least I had a starting load. I found in my earlier testing that this chambering with this throat design and the 300 gr SMK wanted a burn rate of powder in the Rl-25, Retumbo class. Only problem, with these two powder and this new hybrid throat design, I could not get enough powder in the case to reach top pressures.
Just a bit of research led me to Ramshot Magnum which is listed with the same burn rate as REtumbo but its a very dense ball powder which would allow much more to be used in a given case capacity.
My initial tests were in a 26", 1-10 Lilja barrel and I topped out at 2850 fps using 102.0 gr. Remember this was with a VERY short 3.580" OAL because the rifle I was testing on was built around the Surgeon XL receiver which is very stout but uses the then short Badger Ord DM system. Still, I was very happy with those results to be able to match a 338 Edge 30" barrel velocity in a 26" barrel length was great in my opinion.
For this test I started at 99.0 gr of Magnum and a Fed-215 primer. I was also using a bit longer OAL of 3.670" with the 300 gr SMK. Still relatively short compared to what many are using with the extended mag boxes. I wanted to see what I could get using a conventional length magazine box.
I knew this new throat design would flatten the pressure curve even more then the old design but I had no idea how much..... Here are the results.
99.0 gr........................................2861 fps
100.0 gr......................................2885 fps
101.0 gr......................................2911 fps
102.0 gr......................................2937 fps
103.0 gr......................................2958 fps
104.0 gr......................................2972 fps
105.0 gr......................................2988 fps
106.0 gr......................................3014 fps
107.0 gr......................................3062 fps 100% load density
108.0 gr......................................3084 fps
109.0 gr......................................3103 fps
At 109.0 gr there was a bit of resistance at the top of the bolt stroke to extract the fired case. Also, there was a visable ejector ring at this level. Primer pockets were still very tight at this level of performance, still, I decided to drop to 107.0 gr for my working load as I will be using this rifle in Oklahoma here at the end of Jan and it will likely be much warmer then it is here so the 107 gr load should be plenty safe.
At 107.0 gr I would discribe the load as near top but VERY comfortable.
I wanted to hit 3100 fps if possible and it certainly was proven that this is within the capabilities of the 338 Allen Xpress in the Raptor rifle and do so with no undue stress on the case, meaning that the primer pockets were in no way beginning to loosen up. That does not mean this round should be loaded to any higher levels as I was experiencing a bit of resistance when opening the bolt telling me I was THERE as far as pressures were concerned.
All in all, I was very happy, taking 2 grains off what I consider max working loads in this rifle I was still at 3062 fps with a 300 gr SMK!!! To put that into perspective, In my 34" barreled 338 Kahn, I was getting 2985 fps with the same bullet and 4 grains more powder!!!
After seeing this, I just HAD to get some bullets over some range. By the time I loaded up 35 rounds of test ammo, a cold front had started to move it. When I left the shop it was 36 degrees and sunny. By the time I got to the range it was 23 degrees wind had picked up and the sun went away!!! It was **** cold on the range.
Still, I needed to see what the Raptor would do. I set up at 950 yards and took a shot without even touching the turrets on the NF NXS. Shot landed 3 moa low and about two to the right.
I made a scope adjustment as I wanted to use the reticle for hold over. Going off Exbal with a 300 yard zero I dialed the rifle in on the recommended 15.5 moa point on the reticle. Took two more shots and she was there. Then I decided to stop playing and moved out to 1350 yards. Exbal gave a hold over of 28.5 moa. Took that hold, first shot landed right at the bottom edge of a 1.4 moa rock I was shooting at. Second shot landed about 1/2 moa below that and the third landed about 1/2 moa below that one, in a perfect line.
I had seen this with the old hybrid throat design as well, seemed that it would drop shots for around 5-6 shots and then stabilize. I assume just things smoothing up.
Let the barrel cool and shot another three shot string. There was still some slight vertical stringing but half what the group before had. promising, just over 1/2 moa at 1350 yards it looked like measuring off the NF NP-R1 reticle.
I let her cool again and more importantly gave myself a chance to warm up in the truck!!! I then ranged another target rock at 1435 yards. Ran the numbers and came up with a hold over of 31.5 moa. (For those about ready to jump down my throat, I was shooting off 11x which give you 2 moa between each line on the NP-R1 reticle and a total of 40 moa below the main crosshair)
Once I stopped shaking, I loaded up the HS Precision DM with three rounds and got out on the bench. Found the proper hold and let one fly. It landed 3/4 moa below the target rock but dead in line horizontally. Cranked out shot two and it landed in the exact same place from what I could tell. Cranked in the last one thinking don't screw this up and I'll be darned if it did not land in the exact same crater as the first two. So close anywhy I just had to make the drive over to see it.
15 minutes later and a good deal of 4 wheelin through snow I realized what I had thought was actually exactly what had happened. I dug three SMKs out of a crater less then 3" apart!!!! Time to get the steel out and take some pictures but not in these temps. BY the time I got back in the truck the temp had dropped to 15 degrees and wind had picked up more. Plenty of range work for one day!!!
All in all, I am ecstatic about Ratpors ability to take top pressure loads and do it accurately at long range. The drop chart certainly needs some tweaking but bullet impact is within 3/4 moa from 900 to 1450 yards so that will be pretty easy to adjust and tweak. Everything seems to be a bit low on impact so I will confirm at the mid ranges and more then likely it will just be a scope adjustment needed to lift point of impact 3/4 to 1 moa and we will be right there. More testing to come. At this point, very happy with all aspecs of the new project, no hic ups to mention yet so could not be happier. With this load I should be able to reach out to 1650 with the moas I have available on the reticle of the NP-R1 set on 11x. Which by the way is more then enough for accurte shooting at that range with the quality of glass in the NF scopes.
More to come, much more testing when weather permits, when it will not, shop work to get done, lots of guys waiting patiently which I truely appreicate.
After working in the shop all morning walked out to the truck and found that the sun had come out and the temps had warmed up over freezing so I decided to take the chance and get some velocity testing done on with the new Raptor LRSS.
I had tested a version of my Hybrid throat design earlier. The design I am using now is significantly different and should reduce pressures even more but at least I had a starting load. I found in my earlier testing that this chambering with this throat design and the 300 gr SMK wanted a burn rate of powder in the Rl-25, Retumbo class. Only problem, with these two powder and this new hybrid throat design, I could not get enough powder in the case to reach top pressures.
Just a bit of research led me to Ramshot Magnum which is listed with the same burn rate as REtumbo but its a very dense ball powder which would allow much more to be used in a given case capacity.
My initial tests were in a 26", 1-10 Lilja barrel and I topped out at 2850 fps using 102.0 gr. Remember this was with a VERY short 3.580" OAL because the rifle I was testing on was built around the Surgeon XL receiver which is very stout but uses the then short Badger Ord DM system. Still, I was very happy with those results to be able to match a 338 Edge 30" barrel velocity in a 26" barrel length was great in my opinion.
For this test I started at 99.0 gr of Magnum and a Fed-215 primer. I was also using a bit longer OAL of 3.670" with the 300 gr SMK. Still relatively short compared to what many are using with the extended mag boxes. I wanted to see what I could get using a conventional length magazine box.
I knew this new throat design would flatten the pressure curve even more then the old design but I had no idea how much..... Here are the results.
99.0 gr........................................2861 fps
100.0 gr......................................2885 fps
101.0 gr......................................2911 fps
102.0 gr......................................2937 fps
103.0 gr......................................2958 fps
104.0 gr......................................2972 fps
105.0 gr......................................2988 fps
106.0 gr......................................3014 fps
107.0 gr......................................3062 fps 100% load density
108.0 gr......................................3084 fps
109.0 gr......................................3103 fps
At 109.0 gr there was a bit of resistance at the top of the bolt stroke to extract the fired case. Also, there was a visable ejector ring at this level. Primer pockets were still very tight at this level of performance, still, I decided to drop to 107.0 gr for my working load as I will be using this rifle in Oklahoma here at the end of Jan and it will likely be much warmer then it is here so the 107 gr load should be plenty safe.
At 107.0 gr I would discribe the load as near top but VERY comfortable.
I wanted to hit 3100 fps if possible and it certainly was proven that this is within the capabilities of the 338 Allen Xpress in the Raptor rifle and do so with no undue stress on the case, meaning that the primer pockets were in no way beginning to loosen up. That does not mean this round should be loaded to any higher levels as I was experiencing a bit of resistance when opening the bolt telling me I was THERE as far as pressures were concerned.
All in all, I was very happy, taking 2 grains off what I consider max working loads in this rifle I was still at 3062 fps with a 300 gr SMK!!! To put that into perspective, In my 34" barreled 338 Kahn, I was getting 2985 fps with the same bullet and 4 grains more powder!!!
After seeing this, I just HAD to get some bullets over some range. By the time I loaded up 35 rounds of test ammo, a cold front had started to move it. When I left the shop it was 36 degrees and sunny. By the time I got to the range it was 23 degrees wind had picked up and the sun went away!!! It was **** cold on the range.
Still, I needed to see what the Raptor would do. I set up at 950 yards and took a shot without even touching the turrets on the NF NXS. Shot landed 3 moa low and about two to the right.
I made a scope adjustment as I wanted to use the reticle for hold over. Going off Exbal with a 300 yard zero I dialed the rifle in on the recommended 15.5 moa point on the reticle. Took two more shots and she was there. Then I decided to stop playing and moved out to 1350 yards. Exbal gave a hold over of 28.5 moa. Took that hold, first shot landed right at the bottom edge of a 1.4 moa rock I was shooting at. Second shot landed about 1/2 moa below that and the third landed about 1/2 moa below that one, in a perfect line.
I had seen this with the old hybrid throat design as well, seemed that it would drop shots for around 5-6 shots and then stabilize. I assume just things smoothing up.
Let the barrel cool and shot another three shot string. There was still some slight vertical stringing but half what the group before had. promising, just over 1/2 moa at 1350 yards it looked like measuring off the NF NP-R1 reticle.
I let her cool again and more importantly gave myself a chance to warm up in the truck!!! I then ranged another target rock at 1435 yards. Ran the numbers and came up with a hold over of 31.5 moa. (For those about ready to jump down my throat, I was shooting off 11x which give you 2 moa between each line on the NP-R1 reticle and a total of 40 moa below the main crosshair)
Once I stopped shaking, I loaded up the HS Precision DM with three rounds and got out on the bench. Found the proper hold and let one fly. It landed 3/4 moa below the target rock but dead in line horizontally. Cranked out shot two and it landed in the exact same place from what I could tell. Cranked in the last one thinking don't screw this up and I'll be darned if it did not land in the exact same crater as the first two. So close anywhy I just had to make the drive over to see it.
15 minutes later and a good deal of 4 wheelin through snow I realized what I had thought was actually exactly what had happened. I dug three SMKs out of a crater less then 3" apart!!!! Time to get the steel out and take some pictures but not in these temps. BY the time I got back in the truck the temp had dropped to 15 degrees and wind had picked up more. Plenty of range work for one day!!!
All in all, I am ecstatic about Ratpors ability to take top pressure loads and do it accurately at long range. The drop chart certainly needs some tweaking but bullet impact is within 3/4 moa from 900 to 1450 yards so that will be pretty easy to adjust and tweak. Everything seems to be a bit low on impact so I will confirm at the mid ranges and more then likely it will just be a scope adjustment needed to lift point of impact 3/4 to 1 moa and we will be right there. More testing to come. At this point, very happy with all aspecs of the new project, no hic ups to mention yet so could not be happier. With this load I should be able to reach out to 1650 with the moas I have available on the reticle of the NP-R1 set on 11x. Which by the way is more then enough for accurte shooting at that range with the quality of glass in the NF scopes.
More to come, much more testing when weather permits, when it will not, shop work to get done, lots of guys waiting patiently which I truely appreicate.
jmden
Well-Known Member
OK...makes sense now...was wondering how you did that. Very interesting to follow this design.
jmden
Well-Known Member
Could you explain this a bit more? Would that happen every time you clean or is that a one time 'barrel break-in' type event?
Are you going to use this throat design on non-Raptor rifles you build?
All in all an impressive first go with the Raptor rifle. Be fun to follow this!
Fiftydriver
Official LRH Sponsor
No, this is just a one time thing. Its because there is a much larger area that is machined in this throat design then a standard throat, or should I say it extends down the barrel farther then a conventional throat. As such, there is more area that has been machined and not as smooth as what the rest of the bore will be.
The Hybrid throat design offers the accuracy level of a tight, short throat design and the velocity advantages and pressure curve flattening benefits of the freebore.
It should also GREATLY help when using thinner jacketed bullets. That is not a huge issue in the 338 caliber but if berger every decides to actually make a 338 bullet on the J-4 jacket, it will be a huge benefit.
The Hybrid throat design offers the accuracy level of a tight, short throat design and the velocity advantages and pressure curve flattening benefits of the freebore.
It should also GREATLY help when using thinner jacketed bullets. That is not a huge issue in the 338 caliber but if berger every decides to actually make a 338 bullet on the J-4 jacket, it will be a huge benefit.
captacademy
Well-Known Member
Can't wait to hear and see additional test shooting on steel.
