The .338 Rogue

[Pdvdh]

Hi Paul,

Glad to see it is all coming together for you! Hope RL33 works out for you but if you want to try another powder give N570 a try. You will get the same velocity or more and less powder by about 3-4g less with 570. I am running 3025fps with 300g OTM's, HBN coated at 103g of powder. My 338 LAI has a 30" Lilja. N570 is more temp stable than RL33...this is why I use it.

I have a 32" fluted Krieger at my smiths waiting to be installed after hunting season. This barrel will get the Nitride treatment.

This thread has been a great and I have learned a lot about the Nitride and barrel cleaning process, Thanks to you and Shortgrass for this informative thread and congratulations on the new rifle/gun.

Ray

Thanks for the info on the N570 powder Ray. I know quite a few do prefer N570.

I broke into a new container (Lot) of RL 33 yesterday. The new Lot of powder is burning at a slightly faster rate. I had to reduce my powder charges slightly to keep from over-pressuring compared to the prior Lot of RL 33. 107gr with the new Lot of RL 33 was definitely running too high - pressure wise. The only shell I fired at 107gr registered 3015fps MV with the Berger 300gr OTM. First load I've fired with significantly elevated pressure. Still no case head markings from the bolt face, but increased bolt lift pressure and primer flow were apparent. Also, the case head of this casing swelled 0.001" with that single shot. Simply too hot.

It appears I'm going to be operating with a MV in the 2935-2945fps range shooting the 300gr Berger OTMs, with a maximum charge of ~105.5gr RL 33. This barrel seems more stable there, both on target and with uniformity of MVs. Reduced ES/SD at these MVs. My barrel is a little on the light side, compared to many dedicated 338 LAIs.

The recoil on my rifle is stiff, but I still seem to be able to shoot groups without getting recoil headaches. Which is a very good thing. I wouldn't want to shoot these 300gr bullets at these MVs in a much lighter rifle.

 

[Pdvdh]

I loaded and chronographed some 275gr Swift A-Frames yesterday. I had to switch to a faster burning powder with this bullet, which is seated more deeply in the casing. A maximum charge of Hodgdon Retumbo with the 275gr A-Frame in my rifle is ~ 99gr, producing a MV of 2920fps.

I loaded up to 102gr of Retumbo at ~2970fps, but the pressure at 102gr was too high for my comfort. The A-Frames are a stoutly constructed, high weight retention bullet. They also have a longer bearing surface compared to the Berger 300gr OTM. These two differences in bullet construction likely explain the lower MV, even though the bullets weigh 25gr less than the Berger 300gr OTMs.

The 275gr Swift A-Frames are the bullets I'll be carrying in the magazine of this rifle in brown/grizzly bear country.

 

[Timber338]

The 300 grain Bullets certainly do have some recoil don't they?! You may have already specified, but what is the weight of just your rifle and then the weight of your rifle plus scope/mounts?

 

[Pdvdh]

The 300 grain Bullets certainly do have some recoil don't they?! You may have already specified, but what is the weight of just your rifle and then the weight of your rifle plus scope/mounts?

I just weighed the rifle with the 16oz scope and Seekins 7075 Al rings - no sling or any other attachments - at 10.4lbs on my bathroom scale. The method was the weight of me holding the rifle minus my weight alone. That's probably pretty close.

To get the weight of the bare naked rifle alone, I'd venture (10lbs 6.4oz) - (16oz scope +3.4oz rings) = approximately 9lbs 3oz. I don't know how accurate my scales are.

Areas with this build biased toward higher weight (where a few ounces could have been saved with other component selections) would be;
1) the BAT HR action with integral 20MOA picitanny rail,
2) the Bartlein 3"B" contour barrel modified to 1.305" diameter on the chamber shank, and then increased to 0.725" diameter at the muzzle @ 28", and
3) 4-port Muscle brake.

Component items that helped reduce the weight of the rifle were;
1) McMillan's Thumbhole stock with Edge technology,
2) Vortex Razor HD LH scope (1 lb),
3) Seekins 7075 aluminum scope rings, and
4) Wyatt's CTE-12 extended mag box/follower and the PTG aluminum bottom metal.

The Edge technology stock and the lightweight scope are two primary weight reducers. I didn't want to skimp too much on the action or the barrel. No doubt those with 14-16lb long range 338 LAI rigs are giggling at my position that the Bartlein barrel is adding some weight to my build. I'd also like to have another 2lbs of barrel weight. But then I'd never hunt with the rifle.

The rifle balances quite nicely. I thought it might be too barrel end heavy. 10 1/2 lbs is where I cry Uncle with a backpacking rifle. I was trying to keep this one no heavier than 10.5 lbs. Look's like I barely squeaked by.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Mine is 12.0lbs according to the same method with the bathroom scale. I am already crying uncle. Mine is a 30" barrel with a five port muscle break. I too have noticed a pretty tough recoil. This is my first muscle break and I was wondering if the muscle break is not good enough. The only other breaks that I have used are the Pain Killer. The rifles with the Pain Killer are all very mild. One other 338LAI that weighs about 14lbs I would let any kid shoot. Does the extra two lbs. make that much difference or is the break that much different?

Steve

 

[Pdvdh]

2 lbs would make quite a bit of difference. That additional weight should reduce the felt recoil about 17%.

 

[Pdvdh]

Re: RL-33 MV versus Temperature _ .338 Rogue

RL-33 MV versus Temperature data collected from my .338 Rogue. I plan to collect some additional warmer weather MV data as the temperatures warm this spring, which will improve the confidence further. This is what I'm using now.

 

[Timber338]

Sure is nice when a rifle is so predictable. These are great results. I believe my 338 RUM shoots RL33 to .81 fps/degF, so very close to what you are seeing.

I just finished dialing in a load with the Berger 250 EH and Retumbo, and collected some great data this morning right at 30 degF. I'm interested to see how my rifle shoots Retumbo over temperature and compare to RL33.

 

[Pdvdh]

I just finished dialing in a load with the Berger 250 EH and Retumbo, and collected some great data this morning right at 30 degF. I'm interested to see how my rifle shoots Retumbo over temperature and compare to RL33.

I have lots of Retumbo data collected in my 7mm Rem Mag. 0.25fps/*F from 77*F all the way down to -4*F. Never used Retumbo in my .338. Should be a good powder for the 250gr bullets.

 

[SHRTSHTR]

Good info as usual Paul!

I have got great accuracy and very fast velocity with RL33 but I did not like the temp fluctuations. I think all the major ballistics program account for this but I have never tried using it to build confidence.

I just finished getting 32" Krieger barrel nitrided. Ready to start load development. This is a new barrel on a LRKM Terminator. Might be a good time to revisit RL33.

I have and am using Retumbo in my 338LAI and love it! Running 2996fps with 285g ELD M. This rifle has never shot this good and I am approaching 1,000 down the tube.

Hoping I can get 3050-3075fps with LRKM and the +P throat. With RL33 3125-3150fps should be pretty easy.

Ray

 

[Pdvdh]

I have and am using Retumbo in my 338LAI and love it! Running 2996fps with 285g ELD M. This rifle has never shot this good and I am approaching 1,000 down the tube.

Hoping I can get 3050-3075fps with LRKM and the +P throat. With RL33 3125-3150fps should be pretty easy.

Ray

Good to hear the Hornady bullets are shooting accurately. I keep waiting for a 285 ELD-X. Hoping that by the time I run out of my current supply of meplat trimmed & hollow-pointed 300gr OTMs, that Hornady will be selling their ELD-X version in .338.

3,050 to 3150fps is a lot of firepower. Should help you connect - way on out there.

 

[SHRTSHTR]

I will try RL33 again while doing load development. Any luck I will find a really good load. I know I will be running between 112-115 grains of 33.

Thanks for the test Paul. It is a huge help!

Ray

 

[Pdvdh]

Re: The .338 Rogue _ RL33 MV vs. Temperature Data

I've recorded additional bullet velocities from my .338 Rogue with the 300gr Berger OTMs. The additional velocity recordings have allowed me to refine/improve my MV versus Temperature relationship with RL33 powder.

Here's the data I'm currently using in my ballistics program, and I now place pretty high confidence in this data, between -4*F and 68*F. 68*F is about as warm as it gets here. Therefore I have no recorded bullet velocities in temperatures above 70*F.

I am pleasantly surprised. I hunt in temperatures between 41*F and 68*F. In those temperatures MV increases at an average rate of 0.5fps / *F. Not bad at all.

My MV dropped off at a much greater rate as temperatures fell below 23*F, so for winter hunting the powder would be more temperature sensitive in my .338 Rogue. I'm getting to old to hunt in the COLD anyhow, so no big deal for me.

 

[7mmShooter]

Nice! I'd guess it would speed up a little in warmer temps, but even where I'm at its not much higher than the temps you're seeing.