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This is a thread for discussion of the article, The 270 and Reloading, By Charles Smith. Here you can ask questions or make comments about the article.
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The 270 and Reloading
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With all the more recent magnum mania, many shooters, including LRH's, overlook cartridges that are 50 years or OLDER. However, with modern propellants, bullets, rifles, barrels, scopes, etc, several of these old timers are remarkable long range rounds.
A couple of my 24" barreled 270 Win's can easily achieve 3,150 fps with several 130gr BT bullets, and with reloading care and proper component selection, break the 3,200 fps barrier. And while I like 130's for deer sized game, the 140's can be selected for larger animals and present with deeper penetration and downrange wind bucking abilities. Again, several 24" 270 Win barrels can launch a 140gr near or at 3,100 fps or so, and I have witnessed a few custom 26" tubes reach the 3,200 fps range. Those are very LRH rounds, and they do not require the more expensive brass, 70+ grains of powder, etc, etc.
Many years, umm decades, ago, I remember watching an old NRA shooter take a tuned Remington 700 in 270 Win and fire a clean 1,000 yard prone target. that sold me on the abilities of the old standby 270 Win. Since that time, I have used several 270's on everything from varmint to elk sized game.
My experiences have revealed the 270 Win to be easy to reload for very accurate, 1/2 moa and less, group sizes, and of course, very controllable recoil. It is a great round for smaller framed youth and women, or for those who no longer desire the hammering from magnum mania rounds. Yes, muzzle brakes greatly reduce those recoil numbers, but with the numerous off the shelf rifles out there, the 270 does require an additional trip to the smith for a $250 brake job.
Many of those older rifles can be reborn into very accurate shooters with modern bullets, powders and reloading tech. I have a 1961 FN Belgium in 270 Win that was always a 1 moa shooter, but with bullets from the last couple of decades, that rifle will shoot 1/3 to 1/2 moa all day long. I have lost count of how many older rifles when properly cleaned, trigger adjusted and correct handload tailored for it will shoot under 1 moa. Modern factory bullets are so much more precise than decades ago.
A couple of my 24" barreled 270 Win's can easily achieve 3,150 fps with several 130gr BT bullets, and with reloading care and proper component selection, break the 3,200 fps barrier. And while I like 130's for deer sized game, the 140's can be selected for larger animals and present with deeper penetration and downrange wind bucking abilities. Again, several 24" 270 Win barrels can launch a 140gr near or at 3,100 fps or so, and I have witnessed a few custom 26" tubes reach the 3,200 fps range. Those are very LRH rounds, and they do not require the more expensive brass, 70+ grains of powder, etc, etc.
Many years, umm decades, ago, I remember watching an old NRA shooter take a tuned Remington 700 in 270 Win and fire a clean 1,000 yard prone target. that sold me on the abilities of the old standby 270 Win. Since that time, I have used several 270's on everything from varmint to elk sized game.
My experiences have revealed the 270 Win to be easy to reload for very accurate, 1/2 moa and less, group sizes, and of course, very controllable recoil. It is a great round for smaller framed youth and women, or for those who no longer desire the hammering from magnum mania rounds. Yes, muzzle brakes greatly reduce those recoil numbers, but with the numerous off the shelf rifles out there, the 270 does require an additional trip to the smith for a $250 brake job.
Many of those older rifles can be reborn into very accurate shooters with modern bullets, powders and reloading tech. I have a 1961 FN Belgium in 270 Win that was always a 1 moa shooter, but with bullets from the last couple of decades, that rifle will shoot 1/3 to 1/2 moa all day long. I have lost count of how many older rifles when properly cleaned, trigger adjusted and correct handload tailored for it will shoot under 1 moa. Modern factory bullets are so much more precise than decades ago.
Steelflight
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The .270 and many other smaller calibers do the work asked of them. I do prefer somthing alittle heavier such as the old grand dad 30-06. I have seen stated that it can pull the wheight of a 300 and still have the finess of somthing smaller.
Honestly though the .270 in any form has proven to send the mail. That is if the operator is competent
Honestly though the .270 in any form has proven to send the mail. That is if the operator is competent
41mag
Well-Known Member
While I have something in calibers ranging from .223 through .312, I certainly understand the draw to the .277's.
While he wasn't able to gain a lot of time with it, I think that the times he did drop the hammer on it I think my pop knew that the one he got as a retirement gift was something a bit faster and flatter than his pride O3A3.
Since his passing however, that rifle has accounted for several trophies taken by myself, my daughter, and oldest grandson. It has shot great groups with just about any combination of load components we have assembled from mild to wild. The all around favorite however has been used almost since we got it. My mom was still hunting at the time and having had neck issues, she needed something with a mild recoil. Weighing in at only 7lbs with scope mounted, I tried out some IMR-3031 with the 130gr. Nosler Solid Base. The load slips out at at 2800'ish FPS. She used it to take her last buck with, then she decided it was all just better for the younger crowd.
The daughter picked it up at around 9 and laid waste to numerous hogs and several nice deer. Now though, the oldest of three grandsons has taken a real shine to it. He has stretched it out on several occasions to around 300yds on several big hogs and is hoping to bag a nice buck we have watched mature for the past 6 yrs. He laid off it twice last year, but I doubt seriously he will give it a pass this year.
Enjoy them in whatever configuration you have them in. From the 6.8's up to the Allen Mag's they do have a huge following.
While he wasn't able to gain a lot of time with it, I think that the times he did drop the hammer on it I think my pop knew that the one he got as a retirement gift was something a bit faster and flatter than his pride O3A3.
Since his passing however, that rifle has accounted for several trophies taken by myself, my daughter, and oldest grandson. It has shot great groups with just about any combination of load components we have assembled from mild to wild. The all around favorite however has been used almost since we got it. My mom was still hunting at the time and having had neck issues, she needed something with a mild recoil. Weighing in at only 7lbs with scope mounted, I tried out some IMR-3031 with the 130gr. Nosler Solid Base. The load slips out at at 2800'ish FPS. She used it to take her last buck with, then she decided it was all just better for the younger crowd.
The daughter picked it up at around 9 and laid waste to numerous hogs and several nice deer. Now though, the oldest of three grandsons has taken a real shine to it. He has stretched it out on several occasions to around 300yds on several big hogs and is hoping to bag a nice buck we have watched mature for the past 6 yrs. He laid off it twice last year, but I doubt seriously he will give it a pass this year.
Enjoy them in whatever configuration you have them in. From the 6.8's up to the Allen Mag's they do have a huge following.
Charles, read your post with a great deal of pleasure and a lot of smiles....you have nearly exactly described my "birth" and "growth" as a shooter...from 50 cents per hour wages working at a gas station, first reloading tool being a Lee Loader (though mine was in 30/30 Winchester, got the .270 Lee a couple of years later), first press, and first bullet casting to present .270 shooter....though yours is a WSM.
I too was an avid Jack O'Connor reader...I guess that younger readers will be saying Get Off My Lawn...but that's okay, I embrace certain aspects of growing older...but some of them are like getting a kiss from an aunt with a mustache!
I'm down to 2-.270 Winchesters and though I have other rifles including a couple of long range models that I have worn out....don't we all....it seems that when whitetails are my quarry, I find myself reaching into the safe to draw one out
Why, you ask...because it just shoots! It has that certain ability of taking me back to my first one (and my youth) that seemed that I was shooting a laser beam...compared to my 30/30
I too was an avid Jack O'Connor reader...I guess that younger readers will be saying Get Off My Lawn...but that's okay, I embrace certain aspects of growing older...but some of them are like getting a kiss from an aunt with a mustache!
I'm down to 2-.270 Winchesters and though I have other rifles including a couple of long range models that I have worn out....don't we all....it seems that when whitetails are my quarry, I find myself reaching into the safe to draw one out
Why, you ask...because it just shoots! It has that certain ability of taking me back to my first one (and my youth) that seemed that I was shooting a laser beam...compared to my 30/30
The old .270 certainly brings back a flood of good memories. I bought my first one from an old timer in the village where I lived. It was 1963 and the rifle was a REM 721. I remember selling "Grit" newspapers to buy it. It took me almost all year to save up money and my grandmother helped me out with $10. I was cloud 9 I was so proud. Regrettably I sold it when I returned from Vietnam in 1967 as I didn't want to even look at a rifle then. I started hunting again in 1970 and what did I buy?...Yep. Another .270, still have it. 55 grs. of IMR 4350 and 130 gr Sierra, nothing else needed!!
SansSouci
Well-Known Member
The .270 WSM is an excellent cartridge. But it would be a far stretch to claim that it's better than the .270 Win.
Biology is always excluded from cartridge debates because science, not opinion, is controlling. Nothing living remains in that condition sans topside oxygenated blood flow. In fact, death is defined by lack of brain activity. When the brain dies, every single animal will die. That is biological fact.
A big game animal's brain will die by either destroying it directly or by depriving it of oxygenated blood flow. The first is instant. In the second, the animal is dead standing up. He's just waiting for cessation of topside oxygenated blood flow to cause it to hit dirt. When he hits dirt, he ain't getting up.
Whether a .30-30 Win or .300 Mega Magnum destroys a big game animal's heart and/or lung is immaterial. It's just as dead with either one. Again, this is biological fact.
Our hunting forefathers killed everything in North America with the 7x57, .303 British, .30-40 Krag, and other cartridges that some might consider inferior to our array of super magnums. But animals died. Before that, humans killed big game with arrows. In fact, every season huge animals are killed by well-placed arrows traveling at ~300 FPS. Before archery, humans used spears.
The reality is we needed no other cartridge after the US Army came out with what we know as the legendary .30'06. It has killed everything on Earth. But one cartridge wouldn't be fun. So along the way we were offered God only knows how many cartridges, some for specialize application. Some stuck around while others have gone to where cartridges go when hunters will not buy rifles chambered for them. Weatherby introduced us to hyper-velocity. But his cartridges didn't kill North American big game any deader than the '06.
MY OPINION is the .270 Win is one of the best cartridges ever introduced to American hunters. My first deer rifle was a Model 700 in .270 Win. The '06 was thought to be too much gun for a young hunter. While I have picked up other rifles along the way, two chambered for big cartridges, on Saturday when Utah's general deer season opens, I'll be carrying my 43+ year-old Model 700, my first deer rifle, and one of two with which I've made very long shots. The other was with a 7MM Rem Mag.
The .270 Win has very mild recoil. It's a breeze to bench shoot. Bench shooting builds confidence. Confidence kills big game.
Besides its ability to put big game on dirt, I love the .270 Win because it's inherently accurate and both of my .270 Win rifles have 22" barrels, a length I consider perfect for hunting at Rocky Mountain altitude.
Whether 200 FPS advantage of the .270 WSM is material would be opinion. Trajectory would be negligible. They will both kill big game dead. Neither holds advantage in ability to decommission equipment required for topside oxygenated blood flow. The .270 WSM requires a long barrel to maximize its stellar potential.
Like most things hunting, cartridge choice is personal preference. Some hunters like magnums, and others are good with standard cartridges. Objectivity is success as defined by dead big game.
I like the .270 WSM, but the reality is for my North American hunting needs, my trusty .270 Win will do all I want done, and that includes, hopefully, another trophy bull elk rut hunt and moose.
Biology is always excluded from cartridge debates because science, not opinion, is controlling. Nothing living remains in that condition sans topside oxygenated blood flow. In fact, death is defined by lack of brain activity. When the brain dies, every single animal will die. That is biological fact.
A big game animal's brain will die by either destroying it directly or by depriving it of oxygenated blood flow. The first is instant. In the second, the animal is dead standing up. He's just waiting for cessation of topside oxygenated blood flow to cause it to hit dirt. When he hits dirt, he ain't getting up.
Whether a .30-30 Win or .300 Mega Magnum destroys a big game animal's heart and/or lung is immaterial. It's just as dead with either one. Again, this is biological fact.
Our hunting forefathers killed everything in North America with the 7x57, .303 British, .30-40 Krag, and other cartridges that some might consider inferior to our array of super magnums. But animals died. Before that, humans killed big game with arrows. In fact, every season huge animals are killed by well-placed arrows traveling at ~300 FPS. Before archery, humans used spears.
The reality is we needed no other cartridge after the US Army came out with what we know as the legendary .30'06. It has killed everything on Earth. But one cartridge wouldn't be fun. So along the way we were offered God only knows how many cartridges, some for specialize application. Some stuck around while others have gone to where cartridges go when hunters will not buy rifles chambered for them. Weatherby introduced us to hyper-velocity. But his cartridges didn't kill North American big game any deader than the '06.
MY OPINION is the .270 Win is one of the best cartridges ever introduced to American hunters. My first deer rifle was a Model 700 in .270 Win. The '06 was thought to be too much gun for a young hunter. While I have picked up other rifles along the way, two chambered for big cartridges, on Saturday when Utah's general deer season opens, I'll be carrying my 43+ year-old Model 700, my first deer rifle, and one of two with which I've made very long shots. The other was with a 7MM Rem Mag.
The .270 Win has very mild recoil. It's a breeze to bench shoot. Bench shooting builds confidence. Confidence kills big game.
Besides its ability to put big game on dirt, I love the .270 Win because it's inherently accurate and both of my .270 Win rifles have 22" barrels, a length I consider perfect for hunting at Rocky Mountain altitude.
Whether 200 FPS advantage of the .270 WSM is material would be opinion. Trajectory would be negligible. They will both kill big game dead. Neither holds advantage in ability to decommission equipment required for topside oxygenated blood flow. The .270 WSM requires a long barrel to maximize its stellar potential.
Like most things hunting, cartridge choice is personal preference. Some hunters like magnums, and others are good with standard cartridges. Objectivity is success as defined by dead big game.
I like the .270 WSM, but the reality is for my North American hunting needs, my trusty .270 Win will do all I want done, and that includes, hopefully, another trophy bull elk rut hunt and moose.
This is EXACTLY the load that I shoot from my .270 and it is accurate! After zeroing, I kept shooting and put 5 shots into a hole that measured .579" OUTSIDE! I supposed that if you deducted 1 caliber, it would be classified as .302, inside.
My first was a Model 700 ADL in 1968. I, like you, wish I had never sold mine.
SansSouci
Well-Known Member
Here's a head-to-head comparison of the .270 Win & .270 WSM:
Real Guns - Handload Data - .270 Winchester
Real Guns - Handload Data - .270 WSM
Real Guns - Handload Data - .270 Winchester
Real Guns - Handload Data - .270 WSM
Excellent post! As far as efficiency, the .270 Winchester is hard to beat and this proves it! My load with IMR-4350 is, in my opinion, pretty mild, going through the chronograph at 3050 fps.
Your previous post was also very well taken....Dead is Dead!
SansSouci
Well-Known Member
Good Morning, DougsCamo,
As usual, I'm going to take another crack at multitasking. The Michigan-Michigan State rivalry has a whole lot of my attention.
Thanks so much for your very kind words.
What I've found -I used to be among them- is that hunters fall in love with a cartridge and impute mystical qualities to them. But in the end, they're merely bullet launching platforms. I'm 100% good with any cartridge a hunter wants to use. Where he'll cause my CPU to crash is when he tries to coax it in to processing data that doesn't compute; to wit: a 300 RUM will kill elk deader than a .308 Win. If he has to believe that, I'm good. But the biological fact is that were a bullet from either to destroy necessary topside oxygenated blood pumping equipment of the largest elk that has ever lived, it will die. And it will not know whether a .308 Win or a .300 RUM killed it.
Whether one prefers the .270 Win or the .270 WSM, criteria used to justify owning either will be subjective. Objectively, they'll both do the identical.
As usual, I'm going to take another crack at multitasking. The Michigan-Michigan State rivalry has a whole lot of my attention.
Thanks so much for your very kind words.
What I've found -I used to be among them- is that hunters fall in love with a cartridge and impute mystical qualities to them. But in the end, they're merely bullet launching platforms. I'm 100% good with any cartridge a hunter wants to use. Where he'll cause my CPU to crash is when he tries to coax it in to processing data that doesn't compute; to wit: a 300 RUM will kill elk deader than a .308 Win. If he has to believe that, I'm good. But the biological fact is that were a bullet from either to destroy necessary topside oxygenated blood pumping equipment of the largest elk that has ever lived, it will die. And it will not know whether a .308 Win or a .300 RUM killed it.
Whether one prefers the .270 Win or the .270 WSM, criteria used to justify owning either will be subjective. Objectively, they'll both do the identical.
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Too funny....I'm watching the same game...got in on my PIP switching between it and the UVA game....cue the Wahoo jokes....
Absolutely, a bilateral pneumothorax would is fatal, regardless of what caliber is used, hence the effectiveness of a well-place broadhead from a bow with as little of 100 pounds of energy . For whitetails (my primary big game quarry) I have used everything from a .243 Winchester to a 30-06 Springfield with a large number of .257 Roberts, .250 Savage, 257 Roberts, and .270 Winchester kills scattered in between. Like you and I have said....dead is dead....but sentimentality does have a little part in satisfaction.
SansSouci
Well-Known Member
Now my kid has Virginia spanking Louisville on. MSU is fixing to encroach upon UofM's lead.
Yep, we're in total agreement: dead is dead. Nothing gets more dead than dead.
Yep, we're in total agreement: dead is dead. Nothing gets more dead than dead.
idefendem
Member
I am somewhat confused; what about this article is useful for the reloader? What information, experience or insight can be gleaned form "The 270 and reloading?"
As an long time owner (I have 5 of 'em) re loader and shooter of 270WIN, 270WSM and 270Wby there is a lot of information to be shared: primer differences, seating depth, bullet weights and styles; case prep-to turn or not to turn; short chambered 270WSM's...the list goes on, sadly, all omitted or ignored.
Frankly, the time to sing the praise of the 270 has passed. I certainly hope LRH is not straying from insightful technical/practical articles and instead turning into Outdoor Life with pablum my Granny could write.
RDS
As an long time owner (I have 5 of 'em) re loader and shooter of 270WIN, 270WSM and 270Wby there is a lot of information to be shared: primer differences, seating depth, bullet weights and styles; case prep-to turn or not to turn; short chambered 270WSM's...the list goes on, sadly, all omitted or ignored.
Frankly, the time to sing the praise of the 270 has passed. I certainly hope LRH is not straying from insightful technical/practical articles and instead turning into Outdoor Life with pablum my Granny could write.
RDS
