When James Howe built the first rifles and ammo for the 400 Whelen that him and Col. Whelen came up with James use cylindrical 30-06 brass (brass that had not been formed or necked). He used a shoulder of .458 not .441 of the 30-06. The Griffin & Howe built rifles for it in the 1920's and'30's, they were cambered this way and work perfect. Elmer Keith had a Griffin & Howe 400 W and He had good success with it. Some how this info was not let out or was over looked and many gunsmiths made rifles with the .441 shoulder and had bad headspace with it, so it was labeled and bad cartridge by them and many who never used it or researched it. Michael Petrov did a lot of research and found the truth. He even got to use Col. Whelens reloading dies, and one of his rifles if I remember right. I got some loading help from two grate guys I found on the 24hourcampfire forum. One lives in Alaska and he and his wife have used it on caribou and moose. The other guy is in Oklahoma and has use it in Africa on game up to and including cape buffalo.
The 27 Nosler, it's official!
- Thread starter ZAK13
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David Emerson
Well-Known Member
I am glad you answered. Earlier here on this site a man could not maintain headspace with a 35 whelen. Seemed strange to me but I did not have his rifle to work with. He said he had it checked and the barrel set back yadayadayada. I never had that problem with mine. I think the best of all in that range is the 9.3x62. Just for the better bullets.
7 twist and your velocity more than likely tore the Bergers apart. The 175 matrix have a thicker jacket but open tip for expansion, they may work for you. My barrel ordered is an 8.5 twist which stabilizes the 170 down to 0° at 2k altitude @ 3100fps. So hopefully I won't have that issue.
To many 35 Whelens have used a 1-16 twist. Col. Whelen and Mr. Howe were wonting to use up to 300gr. bullets and used 1-14 and 1-12 twist. The 1-14 is perfect for 275gr. and 280gr. bullets. Woodleigh and Hawk makes good .358 275gr. bullets and Swift makes a 280gr. a-frame bullet. The 1-12 is perfect for 300 and 310gr. bullets. Hawk makes 300gr. bullets, Woodleigh makes 310gr bullets in both soft point and full metal jacket. I have a savage I rebarreled with an E.R. Shaw barrel that is a 1-14 twist, and a Montana Rifle Co. AVR with a 1-12 twist. I have not tried the heavy bullets at this time but I will get to it. I think that if more rifles would have used the faster twist the 35 Whelen would be readily accepted for use any where the 9.3x62 is used. I have read where it was stated that the reason the 35 Whelen is not aloud for dangerous game is because the 1-16 twist will not stabilize the 275 to 300gr. bullets. I have read many reviews were guys have used theirs in Africa with Nosler partition, Swift A-frames and Woodleigh bullets the PH said they would allow them to use it on cape buffalo, and there are some that have taken cape buffalo with the 35W with very good success and their PH's where very satisfied and impressed with it's performance.
David Emerson
Well-Known Member
One of Taylors favorites was the old 350 rigby. 310 gr at 2100. He shot elephants and buffalo. You might laugh but I have a browning lever that pushes a 310 Woodleigh at 2100 with 41 gr of R15 from a 20 inch barrel. 
358 Winchester.Tuck it in your back pocket.It has a 12 twist. Hal Waugh was the #1 master guide in Alaska.In his later years of guiding he retired his 375 weatherby and carried a 358 Winchester for backup.
358 Winchester.Tuck it in your back pocket.It has a 12 twist. Hal Waugh was the #1 master guide in Alaska.In his later years of guiding he retired his 375 weatherby and carried a 358 Winchester for backup.
I agree, my results were slightly less disappointing with my 8.5 twist barrel. LOL
I'm waiting for Matrix to start shipping to the US again so I can grab some of the 175s. Their 160s are the only bullet I shoot in my 6.5/338 RUM.
They are shipping stateside! I was just in communication earlier in the week.
Well son of a diddly, I need to get in contact them then! Now the 27 Nosler makes even more sense!
The Hock
Well-Known Member
27 Nosler is a reality! They introduced it at the SHOT Show. I've read several reports about it. I expect barrel life to be nearly the same as a 28 Nosler since there bore and case capacity are nearly identical. When I build mine I'll nitride the barrel to give it the best chance at having a decent barrel life. With Berger's hunting bullets, Matrix having figured out the ITAR import license and Nosler releasing their 165 ABLR I expect the .277 to have a bright future. Like it or hate it the manufacturers have seen a demand and they're acting too full that demand. I look for more manufacturers to jump in if these exploits are successful.
johnnyk
Well-Known Member
I think the 170 Berger just doesn't like to be shot over 3200 fps, especially in such a fast twist barrel.
Hmm, I don't have any problems running them in a "Kirby Built" .270 Allen Magnum, 30" Lilja, 8t at 3400fps (US869). This is a 3 groove barrel and there's reports out there of once these barrels get a few rounds through them they start "gnawing" at the jackets. So far I haven't had any problems but the round count is still quiet low, as in may be 250.
I really appreciated the info you gave for the .270 Boondoggle. I extrapolated your data to the AM. I haven't tried the 145gn ELD-X yet but I did try RL33, GM215M's and the 169.5gn Wildcats and found it had a narrow window of operation. I started at 93.0gn and was knee-deep in pressure right to start with. Tried 92.5gn, still there, so went to 92.0gn and it was just on the edge. Velocities were 3498, 3475 and 3463, respectively. Still needs some tweaking.
Hmm, I don't have any problems running them in a "Kirby Built" .270 Allen Magnum, 30" Lilja, 8t at 3400fps (US869). This is a 3 groove barrel and there's reports out there of once these barrels get a few rounds through them they start "gnawing" at the jackets. So far I haven't had any problems but the round count is still quiet low, as in may be 250.
I really appreciated the info you gave for the .270 Boondoggle. I extrapolated your data to the AM. I haven't tried the 145gn ELD-X yet but I did try RL33, GM215M's and the 169.5gn Wildcats and found it had a narrow window of operation. I started at 93.0gn and was knee-deep in pressure right to start with. Tried 92.5gn, still there, so went to 92.0gn and it was just on the edge. Velocities were 3498, 3475 and 3463, respectively. Still needs some tweaking.
It would be interesting to run an 8.5 twist Nosler and Weatherby side by side and see where they end up. The Wby cases don't seem to get a lot of updating in the newer published data with the newer powders and bullets available. I absolutely love Roys version. For a 500 yards and in hunting rifle it is in my eyes, perfection.
seattleman1969
Well-Known Member
I am about to order a CarbonSix barrel in 27 Nosler, 8" twist, to retrofit onto a Weatherby Vanguard action. Let the games begin...
The Hock
Well-Known Member
My 27 Nosler is forming up. I have a 1-8 Brux on the way. I've read some comments pointed toward the throat of the chamber being too short. The dummy rounds had 165 Matrix bullets seated at the shoulder/neck junction. PTG will grind the reamer to that. When you have a rifle barreled it is up to you what the chambe rlooks like. The loaded round still fits in a standard magazine box even though I have a Wyatt's.
I have said before; I have what some would call an illogical preference for the .277" bore. I call it the REAL 7mm. The Winchester did everything I ever asked it to including shooting WAY further than most thought was right and correct. It also killed with authority. My WSM whacked a bit harder and was a buncha fun. The 27 Nosler is nearly identical in capacity to the 270-6.8x68 Imp (270 Booboo) I once lusted after in a cartridge with pressure tested data and factory brass. For me it is a dream come true, literally.
Reading through this thread I have seen some of the same negative comments I read over the years about cartridges like the 220 Swift. short barrel life, yadda, yadda, yadda... Nobody I know of thinks of the 27 Nosler is a high round count cartridge. Even at 400(?!) rounds it will be a lifetime of shooting if used as a hunting rifle.
I have said before; I have what some would call an illogical preference for the .277" bore. I call it the REAL 7mm. The Winchester did everything I ever asked it to including shooting WAY further than most thought was right and correct. It also killed with authority. My WSM whacked a bit harder and was a buncha fun. The 27 Nosler is nearly identical in capacity to the 270-6.8x68 Imp (270 Booboo) I once lusted after in a cartridge with pressure tested data and factory brass. For me it is a dream come true, literally.
Reading through this thread I have seen some of the same negative comments I read over the years about cartridges like the 220 Swift. short barrel life, yadda, yadda, yadda... Nobody I know of thinks of the 27 Nosler is a high round count cartridge. Even at 400(?!) rounds it will be a lifetime of shooting if used as a hunting rifle.
