I kinda wonder how the 27N will do vs the 27bee, if the bee had a conversational throat design, I don't believe it'd get the fps it does. Maybe 100fps faster than a 270wsm. But when you have 400fb you can load that crap HOT.Highdrum I agree 100%. With one disclaimer. You can have too much of a good thing. Once you go over a certain case capacity to bore you can actually go backwards. I had a reamer made for the 6.5x300 win mag with a 30 degree shoulder. It equals the 6.5x300 weatherby and outdoes the 26 nosler with 10 grains less powder. You can only run so much volume with a certain size bore. 7rum vs 28 nosler is a good example. When I was young and stupid I had a 300 weatherby. 30x378.Whooo. The barrel was a 10 twist lilja. It was chambered to a 300 weatherby. Opened it to a 30x378. With the powders available then I gained recoil and noise but no gain in speed. Now with the powders we have it is amazing what can be had from a smaller case. The 6 creedmoor. Speers new data shows a 100 at over 3300 with a 100gr. 24 inch barrel with R26. You have to push a 240 right to the top and some barrels will not do it. What I do is run up until .001 head expansion with a NEW case. and if the primer pockets start to open after several shots I back off a bit. But as you say with Lapua or Peterson brass even that is too hot. With them the chronograph is your friend. My old mentor in Billings has a saying I like. What is the difference between a 30x338 and a rum? About 2 clicks.And as we both know your best accuracy is usually backed off a touch. Life is much easier if we run up towards the top in capacity for a certain bore size. But reach the top and usually you get a temperamental beast.
The 27 Nosler, it's official!
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David Emerson
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Funny you should ask I had a reamer made in 270x308 norma. Call it a 270stw. I thought that that case with a 270 bore would be ideal. .200 freebore with a 1 1/2 degree. 3400 with a 130 was it with 74 of 7828. Accurate and a nice gun but I didn,t really gain anything. A 140 with R25 did 3320. Once again reaching the top of bore to capacity. I think that 27 nosler is just catering to the non belt guys and another new greatest bestest to sell some guns. The pied piper is playing his flute to the monkey see monkey does. Chase the absolute top to lay down in 800 rounds.
I had a reamer made in 270x308 norma. Call it a 270stw. I thought that that case with a 270 bore would be ideal. .200 freebore with a 1 1/2 degree. 3400 with a 130 was it with 74 of 7828. Accurate and a nice gun but I didn,t really gain anything. A 140 with R25 did 3320. Once again reaching the top of bore to capacity. I think that 27 nosler is just catering to the non belt guys and another new greatest bestest to sell some guns. The pied piper is playing his flute to the monkey see monkey does. Chase the absolute top to lay down in 800 rounds.I do like the fact that Nosler has offered the 27 Nosler. As you guys have said will it really be faster than the Weatherby or other wildcat 270's is yet to ben seen. I think the biggest think the 27N offers over the other well known 270's is the faster barrel twist. I would like to have a 270 with a faster twist and I'm trying to decide if I wont to go with a 27 Nosler . I have 270Win. and 270WSM and have thought about have a rifle in one of those built with a faster twist barrel. The 270 Weatherby with a faster twist would be good too. Choses, choses, choses, they are all good but what is the best? With the magnums I would need a 24 or 26" barrel witch would be grate for open country, I have read of guys getting very good increases with the 270 win. with 26" barrels (not a mag. but still very good), but then the .270 Win. or .270 AI with a faster twist would all so be very good and still use a 22" barrel, and would still make good use in both open country or high up in the mountains and deep in the woods. Many combinations, do you build it as a do all rifle or a long range rifle? For long range manly would make more scents as I could and would use my other rifles were the shots would be close and the easer maneuverability in tighter cover would be nicer. The wonderful choses and decisions us gun nuts get to make.
David Emerson
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The 270. I categorize bores in steps. No 6mm can equal a 25.No 25 can equal a 6.5.Only .007 difference in bore. The main is 120 vs a 140. SD. 270 to a 7? .007 once again. Not enough difference to argue about. BUT the 7 is so well established. Excellent bullets. Is that small difference worth all the effort? Only you can decide. An elk to a kudu. Will they notice the difference? 165 270 vs a 175 7. That would be the difference. Now step up to a 30.Now a 200gr+. A big difference. Now step up to a 338.A 338 250 has the same SD as a 175 7. I have read all of WDM Bells book. Let,s think about this for a moment. If you drive your little finger through an elephants brains or your thumb what is the difference? NONE. Sectional density is the main here. The ability of a bullet to penetrate deeply and to maintain speed. Heavy bullets for caliber my friends.
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I agree with you. I have a number of cartridges (over a dozen) and really don't need or want any more as the expense gets to be more than I can afford. That's why I keep going back to think of building a .270 Win. with a faster twist for the new longer and heaver bullet. I use the 150's in my 270's now but it would be fun to play with some of the long heave bullets. Yes the .270 is behind in these new high BC bullets, but it is Americas first and oldest "long range" cartridge. It worked well then and still works well for most hunting ranges. It is starting to gain some new bullets and if we can get some rifles offered in faster twist barrels that will help too. It may not get as many offerings as the 26, 28, and 30 calibers but it will hang right in there with them in the hunting community just like it all ways has and was designed for.
The load in the 308 Norma mag is using a 165 gr accubond bullet, and the 300 win mag was also using the 165 gr. noslers. Running a 230 gr. Berger is different thing. The primers are flat but not creator. I am also not trying to shot a 1000+ yards either. The 338 Win Mag is using a 200 gr nosler accubond. I work on Velocity to do the job rather than heavy grain weight bullets. I understand a heavy weight bullet and length of bullet to keep it in line at longer distances. I keep my shots under 500 yards or very close to that. That was in the day you didn't have a range finder to give you the yards to the target. These were loads my friend and I came up with a great trips to the range over a years time. I believe you missed the point on barrel lengths is a factor on velocity. Powder, primer, case, with proper care combination makes the different. I see there has and is a lot everybody is putting in into their loads.
SSS
Mike
David Emerson
Well-Known Member
I understand your position. There are not any flies on the 270. I would sit on my hands for a bit to see where the bullet builders go as for weight. I know Woodleigh makes a 180 270 round nose. It would be an absolute crusher 300 yards and under. 9 twist I am thinking. Bonded core heavy jacket. Make growly in the night go away dead See where nosler goes for bullets in their new 270. Also I think the hammers are very good bullets but they like a fast twist. Call Hammer and see what they think about their bullets in the 140 to 150 range for twist. If you twist it for them your barrel will certainly handle any other bullet.
See where nosler goes for bullets in their new 270. Also I think the hammers are very good bullets but they like a fast twist. Call Hammer and see what they think about their bullets in the 140 to 150 range for twist. If you twist it for them your barrel will certainly handle any other bullet.I have been hearing good things about the Hammer bullets, I have looked at their web site and I'm thinking of trying some. Hawk makes .277 bullets in what they call round point, 165gr. that will work in stander 1-10 twist and 180gr. that needs a 1-8 twist. It will be interesting to see what comes in .277 bullets in the next year or two.
David Emerson
Well-Known Member
I grew up reading JOC and Elmer. God they hated each other. lol JOC had his 270. Elmer had no use for anything under a 33. But Jack killed anything that needed killing with a 270 except for the truly big animals. Nosler partitions and bullet placement. He shot a big male lion with a 270.Grizzly too. Moral of this story is any gun good you shootem good. I truly believe that for the average Joe a 270 is the best deer cartridge ever invented. Flat shooting, A killer, with little recoil that most anybody can shoot and not be afraid of and flinch.
The .270 is the first big game rifle I every had and it will all ways be one of my favorites. The 35 Whelen has became my favorite of my favorites. I like the 30-30 and 30-06 as well, and the 308 and 300 win mag are good too. I acquired a 338 Win mag and a 400 Whelen this past year, got some loads worked put for the 400W and the 338 sighted in with factory loads but had a shoulder surgery and was not able to hunt this past fall. I should be able to be shooting them before spring bear season ends. So I am looking forward to using them. Until then the old 270 will do the job.
David Emerson
Well-Known Member
I saw the 400 whelen in PO Ackleys old books. How can you maintain headspace with that?
With light(ish) bullets under 150gr I doubt there will be much difference between the 270 Weatherby and the 27 Nosler. I know that my 27 Boondoogle (270/338 RUM variant) isn't that far ahead of a hot rod Weatherby load with bullets around 150gr and less. I've landed on the 145 Sierra TGK at 3480 fps from a 25" barrel as an all-round load. Where the larger cases start to pull ahead is with the heavier bullets. Unfortunately for me, I'm getting offensively bad results with the 170gr Berger EOL (3-4 MOA with 5 different powders!) and the 1-7" twist barrel won't consistently stabilize the 168gr Hammer Hunter at my elevation (200') when the temps get below 55°. I think the 170 Berger just doesn't like to be shot over 3200 fps, especially in such a fast twist barrel.
The 27 Nosler should really start to pull ahead with something like the 165 ABLR.
David Emerson
Well-Known Member
270/338rum? lol you are braver than I am Of course with a big case they began to separate with the heavy bullets. I found out the hard way with the 30/378. 26 inch barrel and 180 to 200 grain no better than a 300 bee. Put it on a 30 inch tube with 250 gr and it is a different animal.
Of course with a big case they began to separate with the heavy bullets. I found out the hard way with the 30/378. 26 inch barrel and 180 to 200 grain no better than a 300 bee. Put it on a 30 inch tube with 250 gr and it is a different animal.
David Emerson
Well-Known Member
I am thinking that your bergers cannot handle the speed and twist. I have a 243 catbird that blows up 105 a max in the air with an 8 twist. 3 groove barrel and too fast.
