Test-Effect of Brushing Necks vs Graphite vs Both on ES

[Mram10us]

Thanks for taking the time! We all know how much more time and effort it takes to gather the data then pass it on to everyone here. It is appreciated.

 

[new2mud]

Always great to see data-driven results, especially with control group.

What kind of nylon brush are y'all using inside the necks--I'm assuming this is a dry brush just used to clean up some of the powder residue?

 

[JASmith]

Would you mind posting the average velocity from this testing?

Check the image in post #9. One can eyeball an average from the for averages from the bottom of each series, or formally calculate by averaging the four.

 

[jrock]

tag

 

[RD57]

Great article thanks. I graphite the base of the bullet when using new clean brass only, it seems to work when I get side tracked on something else and I end up shooting those loads a year later. I've always done a one time twisting pass through fired cases with a brass bore brush. It may clean a little more than a nylon brush but the neck is still black from carbon. I don't clean the inside of case necks so I can see brass. I completely stumbled upon my technique about 30 years ago after purchasing my 35P chronograph and shooting 220 Swift loads with new and once fired brass with the mentioned cleaning technique. Good to see others with the same technique working for them.

 

[jd126]

Thanks for taking the time to test this. I am curious how often & what media / method you use to clean your brass?

 

[Calvin45]

Thought I'd do a little test this morning and share the results with you guys. After watching the video Shawn Carlock posted about reducing ES and the video by Annealing Made Perfect where they brush out the inside of a case neck and then measure seating force, I wanted to see what effect both brushing out necks and graphite had on ES in one of my rifles. I normally don't do either of those things in my reloading operation.

So, I took my 6.5 Creed and loaded up a total of 40 rounds. 10 control rounds (C) that are loaded the same as usual 10 where I brushed the necks with a single pass of a nylon brush in and out (B), 10 where I applied graphite to bullet base (via the Imperial graphite dry lube little ceramic bead applicator deal) prior to seating (G), and 10 where I both brushed the necks and then applied graphite to the bullet prior to seating (Bg). I then shot them over my Magnetospeed round Robin Style (I.E. 10 groups of 4 comprised of 1 of each CBGBg), at 30-45 second intervals between each round, so that the effects of barrel heat would be similar across all groups. The results were somewhat surprising.

ES was lowest in the brushed only group and went in the following order. B<C<G<Bg.

When I throw out the highest and lowest velocity shot from each group the ES' were as follows:
B:20
C:24
G:28
Bg:53

It was also interesting to see how a 40 round group printed. The rifle will pretty routinely shoot groups in the .2s and .3s at 500. I shot at 525. The group ended up being just over 1 MOA. I suspect this is due to multiple things, zero/POI shift due to heat being one of them, especially since the 1st 8 rounds impacted in essentially the same spot. That said it was a pretty educational morning. I don't think I'll be using graphite.

I'm going to load up 10-15 more where I brush the neck out and see if anything changes from an accuracy standpoint. If they shoot the same then that was a pretty easy way to improve the long range potential of a load.

Hey thanks for sharing this and taking the time to do the experiment. Love posts like this, you can learn something every day.

 

[Calvin45]

I'm gonna have to start brushing the insides of my necks now if it has potential to get es down. Got an awesome "1 ragged hole" group worked up for my .300 win at 100 yards but es, while quite acceptable, isn't as good as I'd hoped for.

 

[rsbhunter]

Curious if using hbn has a negative effect on es/sd. I coat my bullets with hbn, then after sizing and annealing , use a bore swab to "dust" the insides of the necks.....it makes seating smooth, consistant. And all the bto measurements come out to within .001, usually .0005. This is with a RCBS partner press and Forster non micrometer seating die. I don't shoot br f class, so it's been working for me, but we like to think we have the magic recipe....any input ? And thanks for the information you took the time to get.... rsbhunter

 

[Chase723]

Thanks for taking the time to test this. I am curious how often & what media / method you use to clean your brass?

This is going to come across as sacrilege but I don't clean my brass at all. Haven't for 10 years. After annealing and resizing (I use the full length RCBS S type Bushing die and an expander mandrel) they are relatively clean. Once you put a little lube on them a decent amount of the carbon wipes right off. They are certainly clean enough to see defects in the brass, which is all I care about. I just never found it to do anything for me other than make the brass look good and consume time. That being said, that was something that I ditched early on before I had a Magnetospeed and wasn't routinely shooting 500+...maybe now that my reloading process is creating much more consistent ammo and I have the ability to directly measure its effect I'll give it a try again and let you all know. My goal though is to only do the things that matter and not do any of the other stuff that doesn't. I only get so much time with my family and time and the range, so I want to spend as little time possible at the reloading bench.

 

[Chase723]

I've used HBN...it's not for me. Not sure what I could have done different but my relationship with it didn't work out.

 

[ShtrRdy]

Are you annealing every time? What method of annealing do you use?

I've been basically using your approach to processing. It's based on what I see the bench rest guys at the club do. After firing:
1. wipe the carbon off the neck with fine steel wool.
2. wipe the body of the case and neck off with a rag or paper towel.
3. brush the inside of the neck with a polymer brush.
4. lube the case
5. resize case and neck to desired dimensions. Do not pull expander through.
6. wipe off lube with rag or paper towel.
7. clean primer pocket. (some don't do this step)
8. prime cases
9. Ready to load

They will reuse a group of cases 15 to 20 times without any other cleaning or annealing.

 

[Chase723]

Are you annealing every time? What method of annealing do you use?

I've been basically using your approach to processing. It's based on what I see the bench rest guys at the club do. After firing:
1. wipe the carbon off the neck with fine steel wool.
2. wipe the body of the case and neck off with a rag or paper towel.
3. brush the inside of the neck with a polymer brush.
4. lube the case
5. resize case and neck to desired dimensions. Do not pull expander through.
6. wipe off lube with rag or paper towel.
7. clean primer pocket. (some don't do this step)
8. prime cases
9. Ready to load

They will reuse a group of cases 15 to 20 times without any other cleaning or annealing.

Right now I'm using a torch, but will be buying an AMP in the next couple months. After seeing the results from people using them I'm convinced that method/process/product makes a substantial difference and is worth the cost.

 

[cohunt]

some people claim they use the carbon/graphite in the neck to keep from getting cold weld issues