shortgrass
Well-Known Member
The Wyatts center feed box (and follower) takes the place of the Rem 700 mag box. You can still use your BDL bottom metal.
Terminus Apollo Lite/Ti feeding issues
- Thread starter Killertraylor
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big johnson
Well-Known Member
thanks for the info, I've got one on my 338 rum .
Killertraylor
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- Mar 2, 2008
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The Wyatt's CFE-5 totally fixed the issue. I'm going to let Joel know and to recommend a center feed magbox if he knows people will be using the action for a 6.8 Western or any of the Sherman Short cartridges.
I have a Apollo lite ti, Kratos Lite ti and a helios, the Kratos predecessor. The Apollo was using aics 300wsm mags in a chassis. I also have a couple of Joel's billet mags to use in the Hawkins hunter M5 dbm setup. Rifle originally was 25 sst, the billet mags did NOT feed at all due to the aggressive nature of the Sherman geometry, however the aics......fed like butter. The action now wears a 65 saum barrel. Just picked it up from getting bedded last night, I installed the Hawkins bdl and wyatt's cfe5 box. With some minor tweaking and mods to the cfe box, it's feeding excellent. It's scraping up thr cases pretty badly so I'll polish up the lips some.
The helios is a 338 rum opened up for cfe9 box, tuned by Whaley Precision when he built it. It's the smoothest feeding action I have. It's serial number 00007.
Last year I acquired the Kratos Lite and Apollo. The Kratos is 7/300prc, utilizing a wyatt's 300prc box/follower and feeds off the lips fine. I however will likely swap this to a wyatt's cfe12 box as I MUCH prefer center feed design. Plus with the Hawkins M5 oberndorf bottom metal I'll still be able to run 3 down in the mag. But maybe the prc can do that anyway with its non rebated design.
The helios is a 338 rum opened up for cfe9 box, tuned by Whaley Precision when he built it. It's the smoothest feeding action I have. It's serial number 00007.
Last year I acquired the Kratos Lite and Apollo. The Kratos is 7/300prc, utilizing a wyatt's 300prc box/follower and feeds off the lips fine. I however will likely swap this to a wyatt's cfe12 box as I MUCH prefer center feed design. Plus with the Hawkins M5 oberndorf bottom metal I'll still be able to run 3 down in the mag. But maybe the prc can do that anyway with its non rebated design.
big johnson
Well-Known Member
Yesterday I picked up my new 6.5 prc built on the Helios Lite TI. action #HLP00018. I'm in the break in process now. The action is bridged across the top with a solid piece of steel like a pick rail and there's a 20 moa 2 piece pick rail mounted on the action as normal.I built this on a long action with Wyatt's box and remington bottom metal . The issue is there is very little room to top load the rifle and with the staggered magazine box it's difficult with the right hand. I can use my left thumb and reach in the opening on the left side of the action to help get the shell into the mag box, but that doesn't work very good. I'm going to follow Killertraylor's advice and install the Wyatt's CFE-5 box and follower. This is a really nice action and the design is superb, 3 lugs that didn't need the lugs lapped and smooth as glass. I'm looking forward to enjoying this rifle for many years to come. Yes I will use this action for my next build.
As a recommendation, I would utilize a cfe12 box, cfe5 follower and spring. Use a half inch spacer of some sort to fill the rear the box the follower doesn't use. It'll essentially be a 3.3" mag box inside the 3.8" cfe12. The cfe5 is only 3.1" external dimensions and will fit very poorly inside the long action bdl and the mag cut to the bottom side the action, these are designed to accommodate a 3.9" magazine box.
big johnson
Well-Known Member
thanks highdrum, what did you use for a spacer? years ago in my old mauser days we made a block for the short cartridges, 250 -3000, 243, etc. had to cut the follower and shorten the spring to fit the box. The only thing that's changed is the new style short fat cases.
Joel Russo
Well-Known Member
The Terminus Apollo and Apollo Lite will reliably feed any standard SAAMI case from any internal mag box, center or stagger feed, or from any detachable mag system.
When you deviate from the norm, ie start using modified cases with short fat bodies and sharper shoulder angles, you may run into feeding issues until you figure out the combination that works best for that particular application. This is not an action feeding issue, but an issue of what you're trying to make that action feed that it was not designed to feed. We do not advertise that the actions will feed any and all wildcat cases… this is up to the end user to figure out. We do not make a bolt face to support the 6.8 Western. This is also up to you and your custom builder to figure out. Typically, center feed internal mag boxes will rectify the wildcat feeding issues… but typically does not mean 100%.
When you deviate from the norm, ie start using modified cases with short fat bodies and sharper shoulder angles, you may run into feeding issues until you figure out the combination that works best for that particular application. This is not an action feeding issue, but an issue of what you're trying to make that action feed that it was not designed to feed. We do not advertise that the actions will feed any and all wildcat cases… this is up to the end user to figure out. We do not make a bolt face to support the 6.8 Western. This is also up to you and your custom builder to figure out. Typically, center feed internal mag boxes will rectify the wildcat feeding issues… but typically does not mean 100%.
I'd suggest a piece of black plastic or composite. Have one those black poly cutting boards? Cut out a piece of that and make it fit on a sander. I'd recommend drilling a small hole each side the rear face of the cf12 box, and using a pair of small flat topped screws to hold the block in place to prevent it causing any feeding issues.
big johnson
Well-Known Member
Joel I agree with you 100% .This is our 2'nd rifle built on the terminus and I'm going to use it on my next build a 338-06 Ackley
Gstew1930
Well-Known Member
My 7ss is built on an Apollo lite & feeds great from a CFE-5. My smith had to modify it a little but most of Wyatt's boxes require some modification
My 6.5 prc built on an Apollo lite had serious feeding issues with the Wyatt's 6.5 prc box and ramp. Switched to the CFE 5 and it works great. Only 2 in the magazine though, but better than none with the prc box and ramp. However, my problem now is getting close to the lands and still fitting in the magazine.. seems my 135g jlk VLD is 3.013 oal jam and 20 thou off is about as long as I can go and still fit in the cfe5 box without issues. Just picked up some 140g hybrid Bergers and it appears the jam OAL is about 30 thou shorter than the 135g jlk VLD. Does this sound right? I measured both about 40 times a piece and still couldn't figure out why I was getting a shorter jam OAL on the 140g hybrid.
/edit
Also want to say there is absolutely nothing wrong with my terminus Apollo. Best action I've ever had so far and I love it. Joel is great to deal with as well. However, the Wyatt's feed ramp and boxes on the other hand lol. Wyatt is very accommodating though and will help in anyway.
/edit
Also want to say there is absolutely nothing wrong with my terminus Apollo. Best action I've ever had so far and I love it. Joel is great to deal with as well. However, the Wyatt's feed ramp and boxes on the other hand lol. Wyatt is very accommodating though and will help in anyway.
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Joel Russo
Well-Known Member
Not sure why you would want to "jam"…
The Apollo and Apollo Lite feed without issue from out AI style 3 round billet mags and bottom metal. The inside aol of the mag is 3.00", and capacity is 3 rounds.
The Apollo and Apollo Lite feed without issue from out AI style 3 round billet mags and bottom metal. The inside aol of the mag is 3.00", and capacity is 3 rounds.
I don't want to jam. Just want to be able to get as close to the lands as possible to check seating depth during load development and still be able to fit in my magazine box. So far the closest I can go on the 135g VLD is 20 thou off the lands. Which is fine. Just thought it was weird that in the lands on a 135g VLD is a longer OAL than a 140g hybrid. Maybe my measurements are off.
