Target/ELR 375 HE..
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For big long cases our testing is showing that the 416
easier to get powders to work with, with less problems ..
So if you got to buy new barrel, don't have 375 barrel
and building new a target gun, maybe go
with 416, we got cases, 416 HE and 416 HSM...
CEB and others will have bullets...
CEB will be making .408 and .416 Lazers
.408 ---- 425gr, 450gr and 475gr
.416 ------ 450gr, 475gr, 500gr, 525gr and 550gr
They will be testing around mid-February..
My bigger diameter, 34" long 416 test barrel, was 250 bucks,
1-10 twist, 1- 5/8 inch diameter, work for bullets, 425-450gr or so..;Ed..
easier to get powders to work with, with less problems ..
So if you got to buy new barrel, don't have 375 barrel
and building new a target gun, maybe go
with 416, we got cases, 416 HE and 416 HSM...
CEB and others will have bullets...
CEB will be making .408 and .416 Lazers
.408 ---- 425gr, 450gr and 475gr
.416 ------ 450gr, 475gr, 500gr, 525gr and 550gr
They will be testing around mid-February..
My bigger diameter, 34" long 416 test barrel, was 250 bucks,
1-10 twist, 1- 5/8 inch diameter, work for bullets, 425-450gr or so..;Ed..
Buck Buster
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585 Hubel Express video, 190ft/lbs recoil, heavy load, gun little light....
Here is our 416 HSM we are developing next to 416 Barrett, Ed
No thanks, couldn't give me that gun unless it was in a bench gun with a good break and weighed about 50 lbs. Just my thoughts. The 300 Norma would be a much better choice, with a lot less punishment; I would take about any of the big 30 cals over that cannon. Just looked up some good imfo. on the 300 Norma. www.accuracy1stdg.com/content/docs/Binder7pdf Good luck hunting and be safe.
For big long cases our testing is showing that the 416 easier to get powders to work with, less problems..
Got sent 5 thick sided sample cases, same OD base as 585/375.416 cases, same belt, just .180" longer,
did a 416 HE, chambered extra barrel , cases stick over 50k. They have about .042" total taper, .021" per
side, when I necked couple to 416. That is a lot of taper , twice the taper of my 416HE...hanging up at 50k..
I could maybe go to 65k with these if we made taper with ..012" - .016" more taper to each side, but that is
no way to build target cases. I'd have to crunch down case shoulder diameter. And would look like 30-30.
And crazy part is, the case has enough brass material to thin up sides and stretch them way out to 4 or
more inches,, They weigh 150 gr more than our 585/375/416,, but with real thick sides they actually
hold less than our 416 HE with thin sides, that is .180" shorter...Our case does 65k ok without sticking..
And we can make super long 4" cases work if we had means to get them built, as we have
15 powders slower than HBMG.Here is pic of thin and thick sided cases, sectioned for comparison.Ed..
Got sent 5 thick sided sample cases, same OD base as 585/375.416 cases, same belt, just .180" longer,
did a 416 HE, chambered extra barrel , cases stick over 50k. They have about .042" total taper, .021" per
side, when I necked couple to 416. That is a lot of taper , twice the taper of my 416HE...hanging up at 50k..
I could maybe go to 65k with these if we made taper with ..012" - .016" more taper to each side, but that is
no way to build target cases. I'd have to crunch down case shoulder diameter. And would look like 30-30.
And crazy part is, the case has enough brass material to thin up sides and stretch them way out to 4 or
more inches,, They weigh 150 gr more than our 585/375/416,, but with real thick sides they actually
hold less than our 416 HE with thin sides, that is .180" shorter...Our case does 65k ok without sticking..
And we can make super long 4" cases work if we had means to get them built, as we have
15 powders slower than HBMG.Here is pic of thin and thick sided cases, sectioned for comparison.Ed..
Do you think that maybe the case is so thick that it takes away some of the elasticity? Maybe it expands when fired to the dimensions of the chamber but won't shrink back down...I don't know, just thinking out loud. Too good of a good
thing? Or is there such a thing?
thing? Or is there such a thing?
That is what happens, the case side don't have strength and elasticity to spring back a little, it gets good speed for hunting load at 45k psi, but for all out, hot long range loads, won't. I'll be posting more on some testing about this. The side thickness relative to case size affects how much work hardening and tensile strength gets put into the case during the cup drawing process. That thickness in bmg size case would get the proper strength due to the scale of the drawing process to make the cups, and rest of case mfg..ED
Here is a drawing depicting the layoutof thick and thin sided cases,
like my 585/375/416 HE thin sides ones and the thick one.
And my 585 case is not perfect, as where it transitions from the
heavier corner to the side it isn't gradual, so case separates there
shortening case life. There are others made that way including brand X.
The dotted line is what it should be. ..Ed
like my 585/375/416 HE thin sides ones and the thick one.
And my 585 case is not perfect, as where it transitions from the
heavier corner to the side it isn't gradual, so case separates there
shortening case life. There are others made that way including brand X.
The dotted line is what it should be. ..Ed
Others have sent cases to section and look at, that are built thick sided and they stick also for the folks, If a longer case with about 5 sq in of side surface sticks and don't spring back, the coefficient of friction is about .01 then the pull needed to move it is 2500-3500 lbs..That is for big cases with normal amount of slant to the sides. Ed.
Here is picture of six nyati and gibbs size cases sectioned..
In the picture the nyati gma is one I built most of first 585s on.Before we had factory run.
The reworking made it in size that is my 585 HE, but it had the sides of perfect thickness,
not too thick, but thin without the one sharp transition my new factory 585s had,and last forever......
Fourth one is an older nyati case I used to make about 10 of my 585s from ...they had thin sides
and sharp transition, and then I shot these 20 years ago, and they would separate after -4-6 hot loads
as 585, my factory 585 with right powders as a 585 will get at least 10 hot loads, and necked down
to 416/375 can go 6 hot loads if right powders used, Ed.
In the picture the nyati gma is one I built most of first 585s on.Before we had factory run.
The reworking made it in size that is my 585 HE, but it had the sides of perfect thickness,
not too thick, but thin without the one sharp transition my new factory 585s had,and last forever......
Fourth one is an older nyati case I used to make about 10 of my 585s from ...they had thin sides
and sharp transition, and then I shot these 20 years ago, and they would separate after -4-6 hot loads
as 585, my factory 585 with right powders as a 585 will get at least 10 hot loads, and necked down
to 416/375 can go 6 hot loads if right powders used, Ed.
Guy sent thick sided 375 case, next size base diameter up from Nyati.He said,
'Yes I ran them in a ___________ rifle built by ____, the best I
could get was 44000 psi, any more and they were stuck''
Big bore guys. other forums over the years related that trex/african case in 585
size, thick sided cases, stuck when they loaded them over 45k psi.
Another just sent us, thick sided 375, long case, same base OD as our 585 HE,
416 HE, 375 HE, and Mitch's 375 Lethal, and the thick ones stuck over 45k psi.
Now you can fill those cases up, with ultra slow enough powder so they won't
stick, but powder is too slow for max speed. Might get a little more
speed, with thick sides case, but case got to be 4- 4.5 inches long..
. Anyone needing a sectioned case of the ones I made the first of my 585s from,
contact me, if they want to get a general idea of what case side thickness should
be, in Gibbs size cases on up to about trex and 375 VM size case diameter.
Here is pic of our 585 based case next to brand X and thick ones, both have
same sharp, thinner, corner, where transition from heavy angled corner, to the
side, the carbide draw rod could easily be reshaped with diamond wheel,
just by grinding off sharp transition corner. Then sides would be perfect.., .
Here is picture of 416 HE in a Choate target/varmint stock guy is doing,
using long action BSA U9 action.Setting in stock ready to do bedding..Ed
'Yes I ran them in a ___________ rifle built by ____, the best I
could get was 44000 psi, any more and they were stuck''
Big bore guys. other forums over the years related that trex/african case in 585
size, thick sided cases, stuck when they loaded them over 45k psi.
Another just sent us, thick sided 375, long case, same base OD as our 585 HE,
416 HE, 375 HE, and Mitch's 375 Lethal, and the thick ones stuck over 45k psi.
Now you can fill those cases up, with ultra slow enough powder so they won't
stick, but powder is too slow for max speed. Might get a little more
speed, with thick sides case, but case got to be 4- 4.5 inches long..
. Anyone needing a sectioned case of the ones I made the first of my 585s from,
contact me, if they want to get a general idea of what case side thickness should
be, in Gibbs size cases on up to about trex and 375 VM size case diameter.
Here is pic of our 585 based case next to brand X and thick ones, both have
same sharp, thinner, corner, where transition from heavy angled corner, to the
side, the carbide draw rod could easily be reshaped with diamond wheel,
just by grinding off sharp transition corner. Then sides would be perfect.., .
Here is picture of 416 HE in a Choate target/varmint stock guy is doing,
using long action BSA U9 action.Setting in stock ready to do bedding..Ed
Here is picture of thick 375 case sent to me, with thick sided trex case, and our HE case,
The thick 375 case is .050" bigger OD base, but inside is no bigger than HE cases..
These thick sided 375s stuck when loaded over 44,000 psi....
Got guys asking and I'm doing it, to do my 416 HSM case for BMG actions, so leaving rim same,
as the original bmg rim, so will neck them, fire form to the longer shoulder, like the others.
Base a little bigger, Shoulder same diameter, same 30 degree slant, neck will be same..
The inside of case still has close to same shape and volumne within 3 % as the ones we slimmed down.
Some want to use bmg actions and can't wait for intermediate actions, or already have bmg action.
And they are really getting interested in the complete line of 416 CEB bullets now being done..Ed
The thick 375 case is .050" bigger OD base, but inside is no bigger than HE cases..
These thick sided 375s stuck when loaded over 44,000 psi....
Got guys asking and I'm doing it, to do my 416 HSM case for BMG actions, so leaving rim same,
as the original bmg rim, so will neck them, fire form to the longer shoulder, like the others.
Base a little bigger, Shoulder same diameter, same 30 degree slant, neck will be same..
The inside of case still has close to same shape and volumne within 3 % as the ones we slimmed down.
Some want to use bmg actions and can't wait for intermediate actions, or already have bmg action.
And they are really getting interested in the complete line of 416 CEB bullets now being done..Ed
There will be 3 versions OF 416 HSM, one for actions one .750" bolt, one for .800-.850" bolt,
And one for bigger bmg bolts. The ones for BMG called 416 HSM2 ..
Here is 416 HSM guy working in a Montana PH, in a heavy thumbhole target stock.
It has a .805" diameter bolt... Ed
And one for bigger bmg bolts. The ones for BMG called 416 HSM2 ..
Here is 416 HSM guy working in a Montana PH, in a heavy thumbhole target stock.
It has a .805" diameter bolt... Ed
Here is sectioned 585 HE case in the middle, we first made from
another case, years ago before we had factory run of brass and
it had perfect thickness on the sides and inside corrner.
We could fire them many times without sides thinning..
First case is factory run of our 585 HE, 3rd is case that is too thick
of sides and sticks at high pressures..
Here is pic of our factory run cases necked down to 375 and fired 4 times
at high pressure on the right, with unfired case on the left. Our case is not
perfect but does work...Ed
another case, years ago before we had factory run of brass and
it had perfect thickness on the sides and inside corrner.
We could fire them many times without sides thinning..
First case is factory run of our 585 HE, 3rd is case that is too thick
of sides and sticks at high pressures..
Here is pic of our factory run cases necked down to 375 and fired 4 times
at high pressure on the right, with unfired case on the left. Our case is not
perfect but does work...Ed
About 416 cal bullets............The heaviest 550 gr for Extreme ELR probably be best 8 to 1 twist , in 416 caliber bullets,
and 500 gr 9 to 1, and 470gr 10 to one, Barrels I have 10 to 1.
Now a novel idea is to lighten rear of bullet with small shallow hole drilled in base, might do better long range.which would allow 10 to one barrel stabilize the heavier bullets for ELR.
Have hole maybe 2/3 size of tail end of boat tail...Some going to have to try it to see if it is accurate. Ed.
and 500 gr 9 to 1, and 470gr 10 to one, Barrels I have 10 to 1.
Now a novel idea is to lighten rear of bullet with small shallow hole drilled in base, might do better long range.which would allow 10 to one barrel stabilize the heavier bullets for ELR.
Have hole maybe 2/3 size of tail end of boat tail...Some going to have to try it to see if it is accurate. Ed.
