Talk to me about Wildcats

FEENIX

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Dec 20, 2008
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16,997
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Great Falls, MT
I have had a 45 degree wildcat but with a single shot. I am sure 40 will feed fine, but not 60. Never heard of anyone trying that.
Tejas has a 50° shoulder. @Mikecr might just be the first wildcatter that will successfully do the 60° shoulder and feed without any issues.
 

Gstew1930

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Jun 3, 2020
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224
Location
Mont Belvieu
My action is a one-off BAT.
True single shot, controlled round push feed, standing blade ejection, larger/magnum tenon diameter, coned breech, extended port.
The loading tray was reamed correct diameter & centered height for WSSM.
Pretty sure feeding would not be an issue with this at any degree of shoulder, including negative (which has potential).

But I went 35deg shoulders and reduced body taper, which was easiest to exactly match 260AI capacity (perfect for 140gr bullets).
I could now move shoulders back a bit for a higher shoulder angle while keeping this capacity.
An actual Ackley improvement is a little more comprehensive in that it's designed for crush fit of new brass at neck-shoulder junction.
This negative headspacing is for fire forming, so I went with that plan.
With taking shoulder angles higher, the neck-shoulder junction (and neck) pulls back with forming. I accounted or this as well while choosing chamber end clearance/trim length.
I mentioned earlier that I went fitted chamber. This is 1thou over ENTIRE new brass dimensions. Necks turned to 13thou for .290 loaded.
At a 65Kpsi mid-node (for this cartridge) and 35deg shoulder, the ONLY sizing I do is 1thou shoulder bumping.
Perhaps going more extreme with shoulders will eliminate the eventual need for bumping as well. Probably the only change I'll make.
View attachment 274462
This is fantastic Mike! This is almost exactly what I had in mind except only in 257. I love it!
 

camodave7

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Joined
May 12, 2021
Messages
119
Location
Canada
My action is a one-off BAT.
True single shot, controlled round push feed, standing blade ejection, larger/magnum tenon diameter, coned breech, extended port.
The loading tray was reamed correct diameter & centered height for WSSM.
Pretty sure feeding would not be an issue with this at any degree of shoulder, including negative (which has potential).

But I went 35deg shoulders and reduced body taper, which was easiest to exactly match 260AI capacity (perfect for 140gr bullets).
I could now move shoulders back a bit for a higher shoulder angle while keeping this capacity.
An actual Ackley improvement is a little more comprehensive in that it's designed for crush fit of new brass at neck-shoulder junction.
This negative headspacing is for fire forming, so I went with that plan.
With taking shoulder angles higher, the neck-shoulder junction (and neck) pulls back with forming. I accounted or this as well while choosing chamber end clearance/trim length.
I mentioned earlier that I went fitted chamber. This is 1thou over ENTIRE new brass dimensions. Necks turned to 13thou for .290 loaded.
At a 65Kpsi mid-node (for this cartridge) and 35deg shoulder, the ONLY sizing I do is 1thou shoulder bumping.
Perhaps going more extreme with shoulders will eliminate the eventual need for bumping as well. Probably the only change I'll make.
View attachment 274462
 

camodave7

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Joined
May 12, 2021
Messages
119
Location
Canada
I shoot left handed and about 1981 I decided to see if Wally Hart would build me a lefty action. When he said he would I quickly changed my mind and ordered 2, a Plain and a 1A. When shooting off a bench it just makes sense to have the port on the opposite side from the bolt handle so I had him make them like that
Those actions may or may not have been one offs, but they were the first lefties he ever made.
When I returned to the world of Benchrest, not as a participant due to a variety of factors, one of the first things I looked at was the popular actions of the day. As my gunsmith friend told me once, "Dave I used to work to a tolerance of thousandths of an inch, today I work from tolerances of ten-thousandths". Those Bat actions are a marvel of modern engineering combined with art.
 

Gibbshooter43

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Feb 2, 2016
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343
Location
Cottonwood Creek @ Myrtle, Idaho
i cannot begin to compare with so many on here as far as experience and technical ability goes, but as an advanced and addicted amateur, I started the semi wildcat journey with a 250 Savage which became a 250AI. Then my addiction was directed on my 243. This was followed by a 25:06AI and now my 260 is demanding similar attention. To say I really enjoy the AI’s would be an understatement. Obviously some increase in MV, but the real gains are in case longevity and processing. And I have yet to experience any difficulty with chambering.

As an aside, case availability is usually simplified by contacting Quality Cartridge, although fireforming was/is never the hassle some seem to indicate. And the accuracy of the cartridges being fireformed has been excellent (for me). So enjoy your venture. It’s exciting... Gibbs
 

camodave7

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Joined
May 12, 2021
Messages
119
Location
Canada
i cannot begin to compare with so many on here as far as experience and technical ability goes, but as an advanced and addicted amateur, I started the semi wildcat journey with a 250 Savage which became a 250AI. Then my addiction was directed on my 243. This was followed by a 25:06AI and now my 260 is demanding similar attention. To say I really enjoy the AI’s would be an understatement. Obviously some increase in MV, but the real gains are in case longevity and processing. And I have yet to experience any difficulty with chambering.

As an aside, case availability is usually simplified by contacting Quality Cartridge, although fireforming was/is never the hassle some seem to indicate. And the accuracy of the cartridges being fireformed has been excellent (for me). So enjoy your venture. It’s exciting... Gibbs
The Ackley Improved cartridges are really just improved cartridges, not wildcats. You can fire form any Improved cartridge with the factory round depending on case neck diameter.
 

camodave7

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Joined
May 12, 2021
Messages
119
Location
Canada
The Ackley Improved cartridges are really just improved cartridges, not wildcats. You can fire form any Improved cartridge with the factory round depending on case neck diameter.
I actually prefer improving those cartridges with a 30 degree shoulder reamer.
 

L.Sherm

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4,296
The Ackley Improved cartridges are really just improved cartridges, not wildcats. You can fire form any Improved cartridge with the factory round depending on case neck diameter.
Hmmm
 

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camodave7

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May 12, 2021
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Canada
Obviously you are not familiar with advertising hype. In those times calling a cartridge a Wildcat sold more reamers. I have owned a couple of Wildcats one of which is now a factory chambering. The other, the 6x39 was made from 300 Savage brass trimmed to length and then modified with a 250 dollar (in the 70s) set of forming dies.
Next time you wish to correct me please do your homework and be at least 75 years old.
 

FEENIX

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Dec 20, 2008
Messages
16,997
Location
Great Falls, MT
Obviously you are not familiar with advertising hype. In those times calling a cartridge a Wildcat sold more reamers. I have owned a couple of Wildcats one of which is now a factory chambering. The other, the 6x39 was made from 300 Savage brass trimmed to length and then modified with a 250 dollar (in the 70s) set of forming dies.
Next time you wish to correct me please do your homework and be at least 75 years old.
deer-eats-popcorn_64.gif


So what is a non-hype definition of a wildcat? According to Wiki hype definition ...

A wildcat cartridge, often shortened to wildcat, is a custom cartridge for which ammunition and/or firearms are not mass-produced. These cartridges are often created in order to optimize a certain performance characteristic (such as the power, size or efficiency) of an existing commercial cartridge.
 

camodave7

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Joined
May 12, 2021
Messages
119
Location
Canada
View attachment 275980

So what is a non-hype definition of a wildcat? According to Wiki hype definition ...

A wildcat cartridge, often shortened to wildcat, is a custom cartridge for which ammunition and/or firearms are not mass-produced. These cartridges are often created in order to optimize a certain performance characteristic (such as the power, size or efficiency) of an existing commercial cartridge.
 

camodave7

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Joined
May 12, 2021
Messages
119
Location
Canada
I never said I was 75. And nobody has given me their age as yet.

Remember I was alive when PO Ackley was still alive. I was born December of 19 hundred and 51

Respect your elders Grasshopper.
 
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