Talk me out of epoxy scope rings

[D.ID]

I understand that lapping the rings "can" improve the surface area of the material holding the scope and therefore improve the grip on the scope but you are still removing material which "may" actually make things worse. Rake away a little to much and you won't ever get that scope to stop moving. It's my understanding that using quality components you will not have to Lapp the rings and therefore not have these issues. If you add it all up the money you spend on the hunt, rifle, shooting, reloading etc.... a few hundred dollars mounting the most important part of the system together is cheap

No Doubt, I have only lapped a little. While I have got away with the lesser expensive rings on the other rifles they are all WSM or smaller and without brakes. I am learning for one reason or another this is a different animal and has different needs. Thanks again....Duke

 

[lightwind]

I suggest you do a little sluthing. Have you examined the ring marks on the scope? They can, sometimes, tell you something. For instance, if they are even around the tube without any visible longitudinal scratches it indicates that the tube was bedded evenly. If you can use a magnifying glass (low power about 7 power) and can see clear marks that run down the tube in the ring marks it means that the inside of the rings is not perfectly circular. This is where the cost of the rings comes in. Lesser quality rings are not cut as near a cylinder as better rings are (note I was very careful to say lesser quality not lesser cost because they don't always mean the same). I have come to depend on high quality CNC manufactured rings and I check them but have never had to lap them. I also like combined base and ring sets such as Aadland mounts.

The question was asked as to why pay more for mounts and rings. The reason is the precision of the hole that your scope goes through. It must line up and must have a large part of the surface area touching the scope tube. The lining up is taken care of when the mount and rings are one piece (and precision manufactured). The surface area is taken care of by using precise numerically controlled mills. You do pay more but the rings don't slip or scar the tube.

I looked closely at a scope tube a friend had mounted with the mid-range Leupold mounts and found a slight grove where the scope rings ended. I looked at the mount and found a slight raised section at the back of each ring. He had not lapped the rings, but the size of the raised section was well beyond the limits of normal manufacturing technique. Even lapping would have been problematic. However, I have two sets of Leupold Mark 4 rings that never need lapping.

The bottom line is find a reliable vendor with precision rings and pay a little more. I have complete faith in a number of manufacturers and the one I use now is Aadland because they seem to be as rugged as any I have ever tried.

 

[dstewart51]

The question was asked as to why pay more for mounts and rings. The reason is the precision of the hole that your scope goes through. It must line up and must have a large part of the surface area touching the scope tube. The lining up is taken care of when the mount and rings are one piece (and precision manufactured). The surface area is taken care of by using precise numerically controlled mills. You do pay more but the rings don't slip or scar the tube.

Not to mention, the higher quality material and structural design. Maintaining that precision hole and maximizing the contact surface area with uniform pressure once the rings are clamped down on the scope tube.

One problem with Lapping rings is, you cant lap the rings at the specified torque. Lapping can help poor rings to have a more uniform contact patch but it may harm quality rings.

 

[sp6x6]

I mounted non lapped mark 4 alum. rings on my 7-2 oz. 338 norma, braked. Torqued to normal type specs, and 175 rns so for no trouble, shooting 300 grn, pills.

 

[NYLES]

The gunsmith I have talked to uses nightforce or seekins based and nightforce ultralight rings. Said he has never had to Lapp them and that he has seen many problems arise from lapping rings, mainly the scope slipping. I mean when you think about it when you Lapp the rings you are removing material. So it makes sense that it wouldn't grab as well, at least to me. Just use quality manufactured components that are precisely manufactured and end the headache

Im gonna vote here! Same thing my gunsmith says and scopes been on two guns she aint never moved.

 

[NYLES]

Im gonna vote here! Same thing my gunsmith says and scopes been on two guns she aint never moved.

Rings are NF AL with the titanium bolts, were on my 270 AM, now on my 300WM...(NO BREAK) kicks like a mule.

 

[kcebcj]

I almost have to be my own mechanic and gunsmith shall be the same.
All of the things I have done so far where somebody's all you need solution and so far....... Not on this gun!
I have to do it right and whatever works is right, No question ..................and am willing to learn and acquire the tools and components necessary to do the job. That is what this is for me. This is MY rifle and the first to have these problems....... This is something I have to deal with and will have to deal with in the future. If I tried to do the rings too cheep.........I can except that and resolve it.......If that proves to be the answer it will be a lessen learned. I will not be dependent on a smith to do something as basic as proper assembly. I may have to take the scenic route learning the hard way but will have to find a way. I am still a student of the rifle but am making progress and learning a few tricks to aid in the next one. Thanks for all the replies but hiring someone to do it for me will not work for anything that does not require a lathe. Thanks again...............Duke

The only reason I suggested a smith is because of the tools. The last rail my smith installed he had the rifle jigged up in his mill and during the bedding process he would check the rail with a dial indicator that was mounted on the mill making sure it was perfect in respect to the receiver with the least amount of bedding compound under.

You can check a 100 receivers and 90+ will need work to be right. If the base is not perfect the scope will never fit correctly no matter what you do!

Good luck!

 

[D.ID]

.................

 

[D.ID]

The only reason I suggested a smith is because of the tools. The last rail my smith installed he had the rifle jigged up in his mill and during the bedding process he would check the rail with a dial indicator that was mounted on the mill making sure it was perfect in respect to the receiver with the least amount of bedding compound under.

You can check a 100 receivers and 90+ will need work to be right. If the base is not perfect the scope will never fit correctly no matter what you do!

Good luck!

I understand and appreciate the the motive and reasoning behind your recommendation. I just figure if I'm the one driving it ........I should learn how to work on it. Thanks again......Duke

 

[tulku]

Duke , if you want to check Ring alignment , get something like the Brownell Scope Pointers . These look like 2 Pencils which mount in the Rings and point towards each other . Easy to see mis-alignment . I have nothing like your big kicker Cartridge , but after checking a lot of Rem 700s with 2 Pc Bases , I gave up and went to a 1 Pc. Base . Maybe someone skilled in Mechanics will chime in because I think all of these Glues are poor when it comes to Shear Force . If Rosin does'nt work , I think I would try one of the super quality set-ups recommended in the previous Posts .

 

[Loner]

Get the newer style pointers that do not come to a point but a square or rectangle
end. Points can match perfectly and can be neither in plane with each other nor parallel.
I don't care how much you spend on rings, lapping them may not be needed but it can
only make them better. If the gun mount is off the scope rings are off. Even a rail will
conform to the receiver if you don't bed it. Takes an extra 10 minutes to scuff the rings
with compound and a bar to make sure things are right.

 

[Sully2]

Per Leupold Im NOT going to lap any set of rings I use.

Use a torque wrench to tighten all screws...make sure everything is clean and OIL FREE ( go down in the screw holes of the reciever with a Q-tip) using some alcohol or "whatever" ( I use acetone) and TIGHTEN screws properly.

USE NO aluminum...threads pull out and small parts distort when tightened down tight

 

[Sully2]

Get the newer style pointers that do not come to a point but a square or rectangle
end. Points can match perfectly and can be neither in plane with each other nor parallel.
I don't care how much you spend on rings, lapping them may not be needed but it can
only make them better. If the gun mount is off the scope rings are off. Even a rail will
conform to the receiver if you don't bed it. Takes an extra 10 minutes to scuff the rings
with compound and a bar to make sure things are right.

My alignment bar is just that...a STRAIGHT...GROUND steel bar! If lapping isnt needed..??...then how can it make them better???

 

[Loner]

Lapping is always the last step to perfection in tight fitting machined parts. A ground
steel bar is good, a cast bar is even better. Do whatever makes you happy. I've been
lapping mine long before high dollar rings came along and never had them slip or mark
my scopes.

A pictures worth a bunch, here's an annie 22 mag with about 90 or 100 dollars worth of
bases and rings. It wears a viper 3x9. Not expensive but I don't want it bent. The initial
few minutes of lapping shows the rear bottom was not making any contact but on the front
edge. It would have had to have bent the tube a little to conform it as well as not doing much
for holding the scope in place in the process. ( The bright areas are where the lapping removed
the bluing and whatever metal.