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Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by fmsniper, Apr 23, 2019.
Great! But we aren't talking about your bullets (which are fantastic btw).
You just proved the whole point!! Different bullets react differently at the selected velocities in a controlled test media!!! I bet Steve's bullets don't act like an overly hard tipped bullet at that impact velocity!
It is the fluid that enters the hollow point of the bullet that generates expansion. @bigngreen is on the money here. The hide and bones represent a toughness that if a bullet can't survive will show an inability to stay together enough in the gel for penetration. Dry media will give poor data that is not representative to hunting.
For that matter, shooting dead animals will not act the same as live animals. There is a difference in the fluids. I agree that the gel is the best indicator of how a bullet will perform, short of shooting animals. Problem with animals is there is no control and looking through the vital organs is a real detective job to try and discern what happened.
The old milk jug test is about as good an indicator of how a bullet will do on game. You can't study the wound channel but you can determine whether a bullet will hold together enough and expand rapidly enough for hunting. The best "farm boy" bullet test that we have come up with is one milk jug backed by dry news paper. the bullet should fully deform in the jug and the paper is just to stop the bullet. We used to wet the paper but it is just messy and made no real additional data. If the milk jug does not blow up your bullet did not expand within that jug. If a bullet does not perform in one milk jug it is too tough for animals the size of deer. If a bullet does not retain weight after one milk jug it is too frangible for any big game.
For you guys that want to do your own bullet testing, which I recommend, use the milk jugs and news paper. A couple of feet of paper packed tight will stop most any bullet. If you like you can put 2 or 3 jugs in front of the paper. There is a lot to learn with this easy test and it will give you confidence in your bullet choice.
That was just me not being able to resist the opening. lol
My point is that you can't shoot a block of gel at 600yds and determine that the bullet would fail on an actual animal at that distance.
Gel is great for consistant comparisons, it does not tell you exactly how a bullet will react on a live animal.
It can dang sure give you an idea of what to look for as you extend your range so you don't have the need to reach the point of failure with a live animal.
Also help a guy who has data points on one bullet and then looking at different bullets performance on gel and drawing some initial operating ranges.
Good points, I would add that hollow points that open hydrostaticly in gel may not open the same if getting clogged by clothing, hair or hide, and bullets can react differently to bone hits.
It would have been interesting to have caught that bullet at 600y in a second block of gel to see if it deformed. If it squared up the front of the bullet then I would not call it a failure. If it did not flatten the front the chance of good fast blood loss is not good.
Agree totally, didn't mean to turn a topic we mostly agree on into an argument.
All bullets are a hollow point of some sort. Other than the obvious solids and fmj. They are either an open hp, tipped hp, or lead filled hp. They all need fluid to enter into the hp to cause the bullet to expand / deform from the inside out. The tip in my mind is a plug in the hole that must be evacuated to start expansion. Open hollow points must be large enough to allow fluid into the hole consistently. Too small of a hole becomes less reliable due to yaw or deforming closed. Lead tipped bullets are basically pre loaded with fluid, since the lead will act like a fluid on impact.
One thing is for certain- no matter the test media, bullet used, or impact velocity...nothing can tell you how a live animal will react when hit.
We did this with bone it acted no different then gel alone
We are going to putting a second job lot behind the first it’s just $98 per job like it’s expensive but we are going to start doing that to catch the bullet
How close is the BC that Swift shows for that bullet?