VSSF
Well-Known Member
98gr. of Retumbo,Remington Brass,Federal 215M.
Swift Scirocco II
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Ballistic64
Well-Known Member
I also know that these companies ABSOLUTELY read forums like this one, for endless feedback. I know they do because they told me so, as does Nosler and Speer, and Hornady.
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OK Nosler, How bout some 6mm Accubonds /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
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OK Nosler, How bout some 6mm Accubonds /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Just received this from Swift via email:
Scirocco II press release,
Swift Announces the "Next Generation……Scirocco II"
The Scirocco, announced in 1999, is one of the greatest innovations in hunting
bullets ever. Driven by determination and ingenuity, the folks at Swift created a product
with superior exterior ballistics and unparalleled terminal performance. Old-line bullet
companies rushed to follow Swift's lead with attempts to duplicate the performance of
the original Scirocco.
Just as life is a process of continual improvement, the people at Swift
never accept the status quo, sign on to conventional wisdom or rest on their laurels. At
Swift, a desire to make the best possible bullet is the motivating force behind invention.
Now, Swift raises the bar even higher. The result is the "Next Generation……Scirocco II". This new bullet retains the same sleek profile in and out. Load data remains exactly the same. Different is the overall performance with greater accuracy and dramatically advanced terminal expansion, shock and penetration. Nothing is as brutally tough with such a streamlined shape. Nothing out-performs a Scirocco II across an extreme range of velocities from 1700 to 3300 feet-per-second and more.
Time and experience pointed the way to dramatic advancements made possible with the latest technology, metallurgy and refined manufacturing process. The Scirocco II is better than anything out there, better than anything before. Touch and feel the difference, see the svelte finish and sharp lines. Witness the awesome advancement in performance.
I replied asking for more information such as what bullet tests have been done to come the original to the new bullet. Comparisons between other manufacturers bonded bullets. Whether they had addressed the fouling problem with better metalurgy. Whether they had addressed the so called "pancaking" expansion.
Anyway, the press release didn't do much for me...we will see what information we get on my other questions.
Scirocco II press release,
Swift Announces the "Next Generation……Scirocco II"
The Scirocco, announced in 1999, is one of the greatest innovations in hunting
bullets ever. Driven by determination and ingenuity, the folks at Swift created a product
with superior exterior ballistics and unparalleled terminal performance. Old-line bullet
companies rushed to follow Swift's lead with attempts to duplicate the performance of
the original Scirocco.
Just as life is a process of continual improvement, the people at Swift
never accept the status quo, sign on to conventional wisdom or rest on their laurels. At
Swift, a desire to make the best possible bullet is the motivating force behind invention.
Now, Swift raises the bar even higher. The result is the "Next Generation……Scirocco II". This new bullet retains the same sleek profile in and out. Load data remains exactly the same. Different is the overall performance with greater accuracy and dramatically advanced terminal expansion, shock and penetration. Nothing is as brutally tough with such a streamlined shape. Nothing out-performs a Scirocco II across an extreme range of velocities from 1700 to 3300 feet-per-second and more.
Time and experience pointed the way to dramatic advancements made possible with the latest technology, metallurgy and refined manufacturing process. The Scirocco II is better than anything out there, better than anything before. Touch and feel the difference, see the svelte finish and sharp lines. Witness the awesome advancement in performance.
I replied asking for more information such as what bullet tests have been done to come the original to the new bullet. Comparisons between other manufacturers bonded bullets. Whether they had addressed the fouling problem with better metalurgy. Whether they had addressed the so called "pancaking" expansion.
Anyway, the press release didn't do much for me...we will see what information we get on my other questions.
Fotis
Well-Known Member
Anyone tried these yet?
Delta Hunter
Well-Known Member
With the original Scirocco I have experienced the "pancake" effect shooting whitetail deer with my .300 Weatherby. I'm not going to categorize the results as failures, but this is the first bullet I've used in about 25 years that did not exit on a whitetail deer shot in the ribs while standing broadside. In one instance the Scirocco flattened out almost completely and instead of penetrating in a straight path and exiting, it took a hard left turn and ended up destroying most of the right shoulder before lodging itself therein. I don't call it a failure, though, because the deer didn't go far, but I do prefer a bullet that gives a more predictable wound channel and complete penetration. I'll probably give the new ones a try and see if they really have been improved.
Laker_Taker
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2005
- Messages
- 56
Has anybody found were they sell them locally?
Direct from the source (Bill Hober)the new scirocco II's were originally packaged in the old boxes. The way to tell if you have got the new and improved version is if the lot # on the bottom of the box is a 3 digit code followed by an asterick (sp).
Hope that helps.
Hope that helps.
Fotis
Well-Known Member
http://www.intlmidway.com/intl/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?SaleItemID=537105
This is the only midway site i can access from work. This is the International midway site. However if you go to www.midwayusa.com and plug in product # 537105 (30 cal 180 gr) or do a search for scirocco 2 they will come up. Hope this helps.
This is the only midway site i can access from work. This is the International midway site. However if you go to www.midwayusa.com and plug in product # 537105 (30 cal 180 gr) or do a search for scirocco 2 they will come up. Hope this helps.
remingtonman_25_06
Well-Known Member
I really wish swift would pull there head out of there butt and release a .257" scirocco. Hopefully it would be at least a 110g better yet a 115g or 120g. I always saw in magazines where they were "suppose" to be released during the 05 season. Well its now 06 and still its the last caliber to not be offered. I called them a couple months back and they said they were still in the designing process. They would not give any insight to what grain it would be either.
FAL Shot
Well-Known Member
Not a lot of data out there on the Swift Scirocco II .224 75-grain bullet.
Just got back from the range, temperature -6 F, so I wanted to know if my CZ 527 Varmint .223 Rem with 24" heavy barrel of 9" twist would stabilize them in cold dense air. My altitude is about 3300 feet. About 10 MPH wind quartering into me.
Got a best group at 100 yards of .625" and a best group at 200 yards of 1.50". Worst group was 2.625" at 200 yards.
The 10th shot keyholed a bit and was about 8" high at 200 yards, but the two previous shots of the group, #8 and #9, had 1.5" separation at 200 yards.
My loads were 22.5 grains of IMR4895 and 22.7 grains of IMR4895 in military brass. 22.7 grains was more accurate, so I will start working up to max load and see what happpens. Max load in Hodgdon data is 23.8 grains of IMR4895.
The 9" twist is marginally stable, as 8" twist rate is recommended. With a long barrel and a hot load, 9" twist should be stable. So if you have a .22-250 or .220 Swift or .224 Clark with a 9" twist rate, you will probably be OK. Guys with .223 rifles have mixed results with the 9" twist rate, from what I have gathered. The bullet is not quite as long and has a longer bearing surface than a Hornady 75-grain A-Max, so it should stabilize a bit easier.
.224 is the only caliber I have tried in Scirocco. I am sticking with Accubond in .308 caliber due to price and availability and being a very similar bullet. In .224 cal, the Scirocco is the only bonded bullet of its type I know about.
Copper fouling is usually heavy by the 10th to 15th shot, from what I have gathered, so it is probably responsible in part for the keyholing of my 10th shot. At 22.7 grains, powder is slightly compressed, but should be able to get a bit more in even with military brass. Might be best to use commercial brass if going for max loads. Bullet is seated about .050' off the lands, and I have no trouble with clearance in a CZ 527 magazine. Would probably not work in my AR-15 mags as the COL came out around 2.245" if I remember correctly.
The 22.7 grain IMR4895 load is accurate enough as is for hunting mule deer, but I hope to eliminate the keyholing, or maybe it will never be a problem as I will be hunting at a higher elevation in warmer weather for antelope and deer. -6F is colder than I intend to be hunting except for predators in the winter, in which case I use Nolser or Hornady ballistic tip varmint bullets.
The jacket is pure copper on the Scirocco bullet, which causes the excessive copper fouling. Pure soft copper is also why it opens more readily than harder gilding metal used in most other bullets. I eliminated Barnes X bullets from my short list of possible bullets due to the need for high velocity for reliable expansion. I expect shots out to 200 yards on mule deer. Guys with .22-250 or similar magnum should consider the Barnes solid copper bullet, as it will hang together at highest velocities and needs higher velocity for reliable expansion relative to Scirocco and Partition. The Scirocco II will be pitted against the 60-grain Nosler Partition as my big game .224 bullet, and final decision will be based on how it puts down a mule deer. The Trophy Bonded Bear Claw is only available in 56-grain in .224 cal, and that seems a bit light to get enough energy at .223 Rem velocities for deer size game. The Speer 70-grain bullet is not bonded, so I would consider it inadequate on a large mule deer where I need deep penetration.
So, I would say that a 9" twist barrel is uncertain for the .224 Scirocco in some cases, but if you hunt at elevation above 3000 feet in warmer weather with a more potent rifle, you might be OK, because 9 out of 10 bullets being stable at -6F and around 2600 FPS velocity in a 9" twist .223 Rem means you have lots of situations where conditions are more favorable for stability. Plus, new .223 Rem rifles can now be easily had with the recommended 8" twist rate, especially in the AR-15 platform, and with the necessary 24" barrel for max velocity.
Probably best to stay away from this bullet if your barrel is under 20" long. I'll stick with the Partition in my 20" AR-15.
Just got back from the range, temperature -6 F, so I wanted to know if my CZ 527 Varmint .223 Rem with 24" heavy barrel of 9" twist would stabilize them in cold dense air. My altitude is about 3300 feet. About 10 MPH wind quartering into me.
Got a best group at 100 yards of .625" and a best group at 200 yards of 1.50". Worst group was 2.625" at 200 yards.
The 10th shot keyholed a bit and was about 8" high at 200 yards, but the two previous shots of the group, #8 and #9, had 1.5" separation at 200 yards.
My loads were 22.5 grains of IMR4895 and 22.7 grains of IMR4895 in military brass. 22.7 grains was more accurate, so I will start working up to max load and see what happpens. Max load in Hodgdon data is 23.8 grains of IMR4895.
The 9" twist is marginally stable, as 8" twist rate is recommended. With a long barrel and a hot load, 9" twist should be stable. So if you have a .22-250 or .220 Swift or .224 Clark with a 9" twist rate, you will probably be OK. Guys with .223 rifles have mixed results with the 9" twist rate, from what I have gathered. The bullet is not quite as long and has a longer bearing surface than a Hornady 75-grain A-Max, so it should stabilize a bit easier.
.224 is the only caliber I have tried in Scirocco. I am sticking with Accubond in .308 caliber due to price and availability and being a very similar bullet. In .224 cal, the Scirocco is the only bonded bullet of its type I know about.
Copper fouling is usually heavy by the 10th to 15th shot, from what I have gathered, so it is probably responsible in part for the keyholing of my 10th shot. At 22.7 grains, powder is slightly compressed, but should be able to get a bit more in even with military brass. Might be best to use commercial brass if going for max loads. Bullet is seated about .050' off the lands, and I have no trouble with clearance in a CZ 527 magazine. Would probably not work in my AR-15 mags as the COL came out around 2.245" if I remember correctly.
The 22.7 grain IMR4895 load is accurate enough as is for hunting mule deer, but I hope to eliminate the keyholing, or maybe it will never be a problem as I will be hunting at a higher elevation in warmer weather for antelope and deer. -6F is colder than I intend to be hunting except for predators in the winter, in which case I use Nolser or Hornady ballistic tip varmint bullets.
The jacket is pure copper on the Scirocco bullet, which causes the excessive copper fouling. Pure soft copper is also why it opens more readily than harder gilding metal used in most other bullets. I eliminated Barnes X bullets from my short list of possible bullets due to the need for high velocity for reliable expansion. I expect shots out to 200 yards on mule deer. Guys with .22-250 or similar magnum should consider the Barnes solid copper bullet, as it will hang together at highest velocities and needs higher velocity for reliable expansion relative to Scirocco and Partition. The Scirocco II will be pitted against the 60-grain Nosler Partition as my big game .224 bullet, and final decision will be based on how it puts down a mule deer. The Trophy Bonded Bear Claw is only available in 56-grain in .224 cal, and that seems a bit light to get enough energy at .223 Rem velocities for deer size game. The Speer 70-grain bullet is not bonded, so I would consider it inadequate on a large mule deer where I need deep penetration.
So, I would say that a 9" twist barrel is uncertain for the .224 Scirocco in some cases, but if you hunt at elevation above 3000 feet in warmer weather with a more potent rifle, you might be OK, because 9 out of 10 bullets being stable at -6F and around 2600 FPS velocity in a 9" twist .223 Rem means you have lots of situations where conditions are more favorable for stability. Plus, new .223 Rem rifles can now be easily had with the recommended 8" twist rate, especially in the AR-15 platform, and with the necessary 24" barrel for max velocity.
Probably best to stay away from this bullet if your barrel is under 20" long. I'll stick with the Partition in my 20" AR-15.
FAL Shot
Well-Known Member
I further tested the Scirocco II .224 75-grain on a warmer day with hotter loads. Distance 200 yards. Temperature 40 F. Wind 15 MPH crosswind. Shot one fouling shot, then 2 groups of 3 shots each, then cleaned the bore. There was no indication of keyholing this time.
22.9 grains IMR 4895......1.45"
23.1 grains IMR 4895......1.2"
23.3 grains IMR 4895......1.3"
23.5 grains IMR 4895......1.8"
The test rifle was again my CZ 527 Kevlar Vamint in .223 Rem with 24" by 9" twist heavy barrel. Weaver 3.8-12x44 40/44 series aspherical scope with AO.
The Scirocco II is stable in this rifle at my expected hunting temps at an altitude at or below my expected hunting altitude. The requirement for an 8" twist is to ensure stability in shorter barrels at lower altitudes and lower ambient temps, so the suggested use in an 8" twist rifle is a one-size-fits-all recommendation for worst case conditions, I have concluded. The Lilja website states that their 9" twist match barrels are suitable for bullets up to 75 grains, and I can assume the same for CZ 24" barrels.
My seating depth is .050" off the lands for reliable functioning in the magazine. It doesn't seem to affect the accuracy to a significant degree for hunting purposes per my above results, and it prevents overpressures as well. Primers were in perfect shape with the heaviest load, which would qualify as a max load with military brass used. CCI primers used in all cases.
22.9 grains IMR 4895......1.45"
23.1 grains IMR 4895......1.2"
23.3 grains IMR 4895......1.3"
23.5 grains IMR 4895......1.8"
The test rifle was again my CZ 527 Kevlar Vamint in .223 Rem with 24" by 9" twist heavy barrel. Weaver 3.8-12x44 40/44 series aspherical scope with AO.
The Scirocco II is stable in this rifle at my expected hunting temps at an altitude at or below my expected hunting altitude. The requirement for an 8" twist is to ensure stability in shorter barrels at lower altitudes and lower ambient temps, so the suggested use in an 8" twist rifle is a one-size-fits-all recommendation for worst case conditions, I have concluded. The Lilja website states that their 9" twist match barrels are suitable for bullets up to 75 grains, and I can assume the same for CZ 24" barrels.
My seating depth is .050" off the lands for reliable functioning in the magazine. It doesn't seem to affect the accuracy to a significant degree for hunting purposes per my above results, and it prevents overpressures as well. Primers were in perfect shape with the heaviest load, which would qualify as a max load with military brass used. CCI primers used in all cases.
Nomosendero
Well-Known Member
I am considering a 1-8 223AI with a 24" tube, that should work.
