Surgeon Action Weak Ejection

[jraulsten]

I have a 6.5 GAP with a Surgeon 591 WSM action (M16 type extractor). It may be typical of this action, but it seems almost every spent case gets a "ding" in the neck from ejection. Ejection is also very weak. Almost as if the plunger has nearly reached the end of its travel by the time the case clears the chamber? Guess I would like to know (1) if the dinged neck issue is normal and (2) can the ejector be adjusted so that cases don't just "fall" out when the bolt is racked back. I don't have any of these issues with my 591 on a 6.5x47 Lapua.

Probably grasping at straws here, but could the issues above (if they are even issues) result in ejector hole prints on brass (Hornady) prematurely? For example, I get around 3080 FPS from a 25" Brux Sendero contour barrel at 59.5 grains of H1000. This is also about the point where I get clearly visible ejector prints. I know there are many other factors, but this load should be fairly mild for the caliber.

 

[ShtrRdy]

It sounds like your brass is hitting the scope turret on the way out and being deflected down.

 

[jraulsten]

It sounds like your brass is hitting the scope turret on the way out and being deflected down.

I don't think it is, but I will recheck to make sure. What is the solution if that is the case?

 

[Edd]

Surgeon usually grinds their M16 extractors to prevent the cases from hitting the turret but sometimes the case will flip 180° when ejected and the case will hit the back of the ejection port. This is not uncommon with M16 style extractors. I recently purchased a new 591 action and opted to use a Remington style extractor to avoid this issue,

I think the fix for the case flipping issue is to weaken the ejector spring or shorten the plunger. If they are hitting the turret, the fix is to bevel the top side of the extractor.

You can google dented cases with M16 extractors and read all day.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

We just got a 280ai done with a trued Rem 700 action including an m-16 extractor. We noticed the same dent in the neck and figured out that it is happening as the case is coming back and clears the chamber and hits the side of the action just before it come out of the ejection port. Seems the force applied by the m-16 is greater than others and caused the brass to contact the action wall hard enough to ding the neck.

Steve

 

[J E Custom]

This is common with gas guns as stated because of ejection speed. When using an adjustable gas block, you can adjust this out most of the time by slowing down the bolt to prevent the empty case from doing a 180 right out of the action and striking the action or the turret.

If this happen with a bolt gun sometimes just changing the ejection speed you use (Slow it down) will stop it. Although it is not harmful, it bothers most of us.

On some rifles this is caused by the location of the ejector plunger in relation to the extractor, causing the case to be ejected upwards more and striking the turret, (Especially while using target nobs that extend out more). slow ejection of the spent case will sometimes stop or at least reduce this.

As stated earlier, this is not bad unless it is dinging up your expensive scope, other wise it is just annoying and is corrected when sizing the case with an expander ball.

J E CUSTOM

 

[jraulsten]

It sounds like your brass is hitting the scope turret on the way out and being deflected down.

You were absolutely right.......From above it doesn't appear to hitting anything. Also doesn't do it if bolt is racked slowly. **** thing has done a number on the bottom of the windage turret on my new Razor AMG Thanks for helping me pull my head from my rear

 

[jraulsten]

This is common with gas guns as stated because of ejection speed. When using an adjustable gas block, you can adjust this out most of the time by slowing down the bolt to prevent the empty case from doing a 180 right out of the action and striking the action or the turret.

If this happen with a bolt gun sometimes just changing the ejection speed you use (Slow it down) will stop it. Although it is not harmful, it bothers most of us.

On some rifles this is caused by the location of the ejector plunger in relation to the extractor, causing the case to be ejected upwards more and striking the turret, (Especially while using target nobs that extend out more). slow ejection of the spent case will sometimes stop or at least reduce this.

As stated earlier, this is not bad unless it is dinging up your expensive scope, other wise it is just annoying and is corrected when sizing the case with an expander ball.

J E CUSTOM

You are spot on.......Doesn't do it with very slow bolt operation. **** thing has done a number on the bottom of the windage turret of my new Razor AMG

 

[ShtrRdy]

There's a slight modification which can be made to the extractor. Give Surgeon a call and they might send you a replacement extractor or have you send your bolt in.

-- Todd

 

[Joel Russo]

The only "real fix" is for the manufacturer to change the extractor/ejector position relative to the bolt face/ejection port, which in turn changes the angle that the fired case exits the ejection port. We had a few of the same instances, which caused us to make the above changes.

 

[jraulsten]

The only "real fix" is for the manufacturer to change the extractor/ejector position relative to the bolt face/ejection port, which in turn changes the angle that the fired case exits the ejection port. We had a few of the same instances, which caused us to make the above changes.

Thanks, Joel. Looks like a call to Surgeon is in order. Don't know whether to be more aggravated about the fact I didn't notice what was happening sooner or that I paid that much for a build and this wasn't checked prior to sending me the gun........

 

[Joel Russo]

It's a difficult position to be in as a manufacturer. Only a small percentage of shooters encounter this problem, and it requires program changes, and money to make the change. The reality is that the windage turrets are not getting any smaller on today's high tech optics, and the position of the scope on the action makes this issue apparent. Before we made the change, a few customers moved the scope fore or aft on the rail to alleviate the issue.

 

[Edd]

Is there a bevel on the top of your extractor?

 

[Joel Russo]

We make our own mini M16 extractors, and we do not put a cut on the corner like your describing. Our testing showed that made little difference in correcting the problem.