Suppressor Point of Impact Change: Any Fixes???

POI shift is normal, how much depends on many factors and varies by can.

I have never experienced groups opening up though so I'm no help the

Here's just a SWAG. Based on reports from this forum, people generally experienced 30 fps increase in velocity with a can vs. no can.

That means, pressure is also a little higher, and the theory is that the can
acts as a "psuedo-barrel extension". If you follow the theory of OCW on barrel exit time and velocity affect on timing the bullet exit to find the sweet harmonic node where the barrel is pointing in the exact same spot each shot, then you might try the following.

Assuming a slight increase in velocity with can. (You can actually test your specific rifle verify this---higher velocity with can or not?)

1) Seat bullet a little less deep. Less seating will reduce pressure and therefor slow down its velocity and barrel exit time to offset any gain its getting from the can.

2) Decrease powder charge slightly to lower velocity to offset any increase from can.

3) Check velocity before can to with can, and then velocity with changes 1 and 2 above. Try to match velocity pre-can with these changes.

4) You can try both 1 and 2 combined as well to get a pre-can velocity match.

I'm not 100% sure that any of this will work, but if you can get a better match to bullet exit timing by matching pre-can velocity it may help in theory at least..... LOTS OF STUFF IN THEORY DONT PAN OUT.

But, its worth a try. Now, if your can shows decreased velocity from pre-can velocity work backwards from the above.

It may also be simply that this is more mechanical or harmonic in some respect, and that the can is just shifting the harmonics of the barrel so much that it is a problem. Try a lighter or heavier or shorter or longer can.
Because you will see that relative to your barrel design, short and fat or long and skinny, bull heavy diameter or not so, that a big weight on the end of the barrel will affect different barrels differently. It is in affect a barrel tuner, that may put you out of tune by the weight and length distribution with respect to harmonics.


Before any of this......please do check the can and threads to make sure it is not vibrating lose each shot so, every shot has a different harmonic profile due to the weight distribution difference in the can being too loose and moving around.......please do check that very first thing. Might even lock it down with blue thread.

Good Luck. Harmonics is a deep and strange subject.

There is an excellent thread here on LRH about velocity in cans reported
after install, and the average 30 fps increase most saw.

P.S. I don't have a can, never shot one, and so this is all very much theory coming from me......but I did stay at Holiday Inn recently, not even last night.....
I see about 20-30 ft/second increase in speeds with my can. Thanks for the input, seems like trying to match speeds (with and without the can) might be the first thing I try. Makes the most sense to me that these guns have a tight speed node that the barrel likes, so match that speed!!
 
I see about 20-30 ft/second increase in speeds with my can. Thanks for the input, seems like trying to match speeds (with and without the can) might be the first thing I try. Makes the most sense to me that these guns have a tight speed node that the barrel likes, so match that speed!!
Its all tied to bullet exit time and thus velocity. I could point you to lots of papers and models, but thats the short answer.
 
Honestly, every one of my guns shoot better with a suppressor vs without and everyone I personally know that run suppressors say the same thing.

Is it the same suppressor?
 
The muzzle break is changing the harmonics of the barrel, like using a magnetospeed chrono will change it. Thus changing your point of impact. Make a decision whether you are going to always shoot that rifle suppressed or not, then develop a load for that condition. Unfortunately you can't have it both ways in this instance.
Anything you put on the end of a barrel changes it's harmonics.
 
If there was an easy button for this, it'd be common knowledge by now methinks. I hope matching velocities works for you. Please respond with your findings!

I personally do not expect it to be that easy, and agree with the above posters about the changed harmonics. I would just start completely over with load development with the suppressor on if it didnt happen to shoot as good. You would save time over attempting a hundred different little tweaks to an existing load.
 
If there was an easy button for this, it'd be common knowledge by now methinks. I hope matching velocities works for you. Please respond with your findings!

I personally do not expect it to be that easy, and agree with the above posters about the changed harmonics. I would just start completely over with load development with the suppressor on if it didnt happen to shoot as good. You would save time over attempting a hundred different little tweaks to an existing load.

I think this is the best advice. You should not need to very your load by a lot to find the best load. I'm guessing +/- 3% at most.
 
If there was an easy button for this, it'd be common knowledge by now methinks. I hope matching velocities works for you. Please respond with your findings!

I personally do not expect it to be that easy, and agree with the above posters about the changed harmonics. I would just start completely over with load development with the suppressor on if it didnt happen to shoot as good. You would save time over attempting a hundred different little tweaks to an existing load.
I hope it can be a "simple" fix trying to match velocities, but I'm with you on not expecting that to be the case!! Time will tell, I'll try to get out soon and let everybody know some results!!
 
Its all tied to bullet exit time and thus velocity. I could point you to lots of papers and models, but thats the short answer.
I would love that, I've had an extremely hard time finding peer reviewed papers on ballistics
 
I would love that, I've had an extremely hard time finding peer reviewed papers on ballistics
Ok, you asked for it.......here's some fat to chew on for awhile.
This is all "internal ballistics". Before the bullet exits the barrel.
And internal ballistics is what we are talking about here when we discuss barrel harmonics.

Chris Long paper on bullet exit timing, and the Harrals models using finite element analysis to examine where the barrel is pointing depending on
bullet exit timing are all closely related. That's exactly what is happening here with this suppressor. Its all related to the bullet's velocity and when it exits the barrel.

https://www.longrangehunting.com/th...and-why-you-decide.293856/page-7#post-2445572


https://www.longrangehunting.com/th...han-you-may-think-or-know-heres-proof.294317/
 
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