Suppressor Point of Impact Change: Any Fixes???

kgoltz

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Oct 15, 2014
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So, I have several guns that I shoot suppressed, I have a couple that shoot 1/4 minute with a muzzlebrake and I put the suppressor on and they open up and shoot an inch!! My question is what are you guys doing to get it back to 1/4 minute with a can? 1) Seating depth only? If so, IN or OUT and how much in or out to have results? 2) Powder charge change? UP or DOWN? and how much to get results?

Any feedback would be appreciated!! Just trying to save time, powder and bullets so see what you guys are doing to get your rifles to shoot suppressed!!
 
Take the suppressor off--- 😜

I tend to build my load with the suppressor and then check with just a brake for poi shift-- I've had very small differences in group size but I've had some substantial poi changes
This, I have found if you want to shoot suppressed - build the load suppressed from the beginning. It changes the harmonics, velocity and pressure just enough to drive you crazy trying to go back and forth.
 
I develop with can on normally but have had no negative results developing without can so far. I'd suggest a .2-.3 grain reduction as it sounds like you're in a very narrow node
 
Good recommendations already but I can try to help you with one variable. I shoot suppressed airguns from .177 to .58 caliber with and without Suppressors as well as firearms.
I shoot ten (10) shot minimum groups.
How many rounds do you shoot? I'm going to make the assumption you are at 100 meters/yard and shoot three (3) shot groups.
Is your Suppressor HOT or ambient for each shot?
What about your barrel?
The reason I ask these questions is that it SEEMS from my experience that firearm Suppressors can get very hot and keep your barrel much hotter than without.
Airgun Suppressors do not get hot or even warm. POI SHIFT is common, virtually assured, on airguns with the Suppressor mounted. Ten (10) shot group dispersion (vertical or horizontal) increase is not seen unless the projectile clips the Suppressor.
Unless you are shooting COLD Bore and COLD Suppressor I believe you will be chasing your tail trying to determine what is at the heart of your group [hopefully at least Ten (10) shot] dispersion increase.
 
POI shift is normal, how much depends on many factors and varies by can.

I have never experienced groups opening up though so I'm no help there.
This has been my experience as well. My average group actually got just under .25 MOA smaller with the suppressor, just had to adjust the POI. not sure why a group would grow after the suppressor was mounted.
 
Here's just a SWAG. Based on reports from this forum, people generally experienced 30 fps increase in velocity with a can vs. no can.

That means, pressure is also a little higher, and the theory is that the can
acts as a "psuedo-barrel extension". If you follow the theory of OCW on barrel exit time and velocity affect on timing the bullet exit to find the sweet harmonic node where the barrel is pointing in the exact same spot each shot, then you might try the following.

Assuming a slight increase in velocity with can. (You can actually test your specific rifle verify this---higher velocity with can or not?)

1) Seat bullet a little less deep. Less seating will reduce pressure and therefor slow down its velocity and barrel exit time to offset any gain its getting from the can.

2) Decrease powder charge slightly to lower velocity to offset any increase from can.

3) Check velocity before can to with can, and then velocity with changes 1 and 2 above. Try to match velocity pre-can with these changes.

4) You can try both 1 and 2 combined as well to get a pre-can velocity match.

I'm not 100% sure that any of this will work, but if you can get a better match to bullet exit timing by matching pre-can velocity it may help in theory at least..... LOTS OF STUFF IN THEORY DONT PAN OUT.

But, its worth a try. Now, if your can shows decreased velocity from pre-can velocity work backwards from the above.

It may also be simply that this is more mechanical or harmonic in some respect, and that the can is just shifting the harmonics of the barrel so much that it is a problem. Try a lighter or heavier or shorter or longer can.
Because you will see that relative to your barrel design, short and fat or long and skinny, bull heavy diameter or not so, that a big weight on the end of the barrel will affect different barrels differently. It is in affect a barrel tuner, that may put you out of tune by the weight and length distribution with respect to harmonics.


Before any of this......please do check the can and threads to make sure it is not vibrating lose each shot so, every shot has a different harmonic profile due to the weight distribution difference in the can being too loose and moving around.......please do check that very first thing. Might even lock it down with blue thread.

Good Luck. Harmonics is a deep and strange subject.

There is an excellent thread here on LRH about velocity in cans reported
after install, and the average 30 fps increase most saw.

P.S. I don't have a can, never shot one, and so this is all very much theory coming from me......but I did stay at Holiday Inn recently, not even last night.....
 
Good recommendations already but I can try to help you with one variable. I shoot suppressed airguns from .177 to .58 caliber with and without Suppressors as well as firearms.
I shoot ten (10) shot minimum groups.
How many rounds to you shoot? I'm going to make the assumption you are at 100 meters/yard and shoot three (3) shot groups.
Is your Suppressor HOT or ambient for each shot?
What about your barrel?
The reason I ask these questions is that it SEEMS from my experience that firearm Suppressors can get very hot and keep your barrel much hotter than without.
Airgun Suppressors do not get hot or even warm. POI SHIFT is common, virtually assured, on airguns with the Suppressor mounted. Ten (10) shot group dispersion (vertical or horizontal) increase is not seen unless the projectile clips the Suppressor.
Unless you are shooting COLD Bore and COLD Suppressor I believe you will be chasing your tail trying to determine what is at the heart of your group [hopefully at least Ten (10) shot] dispersion increase.
 
I want to thank all that have put in input here on suppressors. I just got one and had on idea as to what may happen or would happen. I have added this into my notes. Thanks again.
 
Here, read this for grins....

 
So, I have several guns that I shoot suppressed, I have a couple that shoot 1/4 minute with a muzzlebrake and I put the suppressor on and they open up and shoot an inch!! My question is what are you guys doing to get it back to 1/4 minute with a can? 1) Seating depth only? If so, IN or OUT and how much in or out to have results? 2) Powder charge change? UP or DOWN? and how much to get results?

Any feedback would be appreciated!! Just trying to save time, powder and bullets so see what you guys are doing to get your rifles to shoot suppressed!!
The muzzle break is changing the harmonics of the barrel, like using a magnetospeed chrono will change it. Thus changing your point of impact. Make a decision whether you are going to always shoot that rifle suppressed or not, then develop a load for that condition. Unfortunately you can't have it both ways in this instance.
 
If you really don't want to chase your tail don't buy a modular can…I have a rugged Micro30
That I swap between several rifles and trying the different muzzle devices and short vs long configs can burn through some components and time. There are worse hobbies though….I suppose.
 

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