Supply chain problems-driven price craziness

[HockeyDad]

It's not just limited to reloading supplies.
I finally found the Ibanez carry bag for my bass guitar in stock that I've wanted. It's been really hard to find. I put it in my cart at $42. I started looking around at other stuff, then got really busy with work. When I went back a few hours later, it was up to $50.77.
Whiskey
Tango
Foxtrot?

 

[asd9055]

Without accusing any company of gouging, complete understanding of supply chain porblems and having lived and worked in different government and market systems (Communism, socialism, monoply markets and democratic/free market systems) I have learned the following:
Monopolies will always hurt the consumer (We are very close with powders and primers)

From my ECON 101/102 in college, there are two types of collusion in controlling price, both illegal.

1) Direct, where companies meet and agree on supply and price
2) Indirect. Company A limits supply and raises prices. Company B follows.
Had this been a "prime life necessity" like bread you migh have seen goverments starting investigations. As these are not "prime life necessities" and many states wanting to ban these anyways, there is no outcry.

Our only recourse is buying what we absolutely need, control demand, to bring prices down. Maybe!

 

[Boss Hoss]

Monopolies will always hurt the consumer (We are very close with powders and primers)

From my ECON 101/102 in college, there are two types of collusion in controlling price, both illegal.

There is no monopoly or collusion with respect to the pricing of powders and primers. The economics simply do not support the long-term investment of resources to bring all of the production of these goods back to the US and the increase of temporary production. LOL if it was profitable and sustainable for the long term you would see more of this coming back to the CONUS in a hearbeat.

People like to dream up all sorts of things when they are not able to satisfy an immediate need. The biggest issue and I have some friends in the industry and it is the pent-up demand and hording that is going on which is driven by the shortages over the last few years. What complicates this matter even further and to a greater extent than most realize is the commitment to the large ammunition makers who consume by far the vast majority of produced ammunition components.

Given time demand will subside and the availability will once again be reasonable. Pricing--everything is going crazy (remember the early 80's) and with the globalization of the industry it is more complicated than it was in previous times of inflationary pressures.

 

[asd9055]

I didnt say we had a monopoly, I said we are closed. Vista owns CCI, Federal and Remington?
Hodgdon owns Hodgdon, Winchester, IMR, Accurate and Ramshot. How many more brands are available here?
I agree with what you say about hoarders. I have not bought any since Obama was in office.
And I did mention we have to do our part in curtailing demand. But no matter how you slice it, supply chain/logistics does not explain away 300% increase. If I can make the same money with half the cost, why ramp up?
Again, MHO, nobody has to agree with it

 

[Raingull]

Easy enough to tell with publicly traded companies. Harder for private companies. Consumer debt is up, defaults up, economy tanking across many segments, commercial freight slowing etc... Now look at corporate profits. Shell for instance doubled their profits year over year, all the oil companies are like that. Record profits means that their record margin is priced into the product.

The idea that there is no demand is just demonstrably foolish. Record gun sales. Record ongoing shortages with more than necessary price hikes. Hodgdon and all its underlings are just doing what OPEC does which is just a calculation of profit on the markup vs on volume. Right now they are quite happy riding the markup driven by perpetual shortages. Same reason big oil blamed refineries (and many suspicious refinery fires) yet stated unequivocally they had no incentive to open more refinery capacity.

The short answer is that our regulatory agencies bear a remarkable resemblance to three famous monkeys.

 

[Raingull]

There is no monopoly or collusion with respect to the pricing of powders and primers. The economics simply do not support the long-term investment of resources to bring all of the production of these goods back to the US and the increase of temporary production. LOL if it was profitable and sustainable for the long term you would see more of this coming back to the CONUS in a hearbeat.

People like to dream up all sorts of things when they are not able to satisfy an immediate need. The biggest issue and I have some friends in the industry and it is the pent-up demand and hording that is going on which is driven by the shortages over the last few years. What complicates this matter even further and to a greater extent than most realize is the commitment to the large ammunition makers who consume by far the vast majority of produced ammunition components.

Given time demand will subside and the availability will once again be reasonable. Pricing--everything is going crazy (remember the early 80's) and with the globalization of the industry it is more complicated than it was in previous times of inflationary pressures.

The economics certainly support supply and demand, as they always have. You'd think wars never happened and production never ramped up to meet demand to hear these conspiracy deniers tell it! You cite years of buying pressure and in the next breath pretend there is no need to actually produce more because it's just people who want it for the wrong reasons because they aren't supposed to want that much for some odd reason. As if nobody bought powder in 8lb lots before Joe Biden was elected POTUS. Sure there is speculation, there always has been and always will be profiteering when supplies are tight (you cannot excuse it from Hodgdon and then ridicule it from individuals)... Want to know the answer to that? More production. Aside from greed there is no other reason for the shortages years on. Not that their ongoing PR campaign would let you see what's right in front of you. As to collusion, every economics class will tell you that the market will respond to demand. Years on why hasn't the market responded? Collusion. We literally have the (almost fully monopolized) market telling us they are not going to respond! Collusion is the only thing that explains years of demand without a response on the supply side.

 

[Boss Hoss]

Easy enough to tell with publicly traded companies. Harder for private companies. Consumer debt is up, defaults up, economy tanking across many segments, commercial freight slowing etc... Now look at corporate profits. Shell for instance doubled their profits year over year, all the oil companies are like that. Record profits means that their record margin is priced into the product.

The idea that there is no demand is just demonstrably foolish. Record gun sales. Record ongoing shortages with more than necessary price hikes. Hodgdon and all its underlings are just doing what OPEC does which is just a calculation of profit on the markup vs on volume. Right now they are quite happy riding the markup driven by perpetual shortages. Same reason big oil blamed refineries (and many suspicious refinery fires) yet stated unequivocally they had no incentive to open more refinery capacity.

The short answer is that our regulatory agencies bear a remarkable resemblance to three famous monkeys.

I am in the oil industry----You are one funny guy. Read too many conspiracy theories. Better go check to see if the "black helicopters" are circling over your house.

 

[Raingull]

Funny how you just sling mud without throwing out all those facts you're swimming in what with being the CEO of Exxon Mobil. Am I wrong about the corporate profits of the oil companies? Demonstrably not. Am I wrong about the unusual number of fires and shutdowns? Also no. Am I wrong about industry statements about not increasing refinery capacity? Still no. You are one of 148,610 Americans employed by the oil industry. For that you get a check, not a monopoly on economic realities. Or do I need a stupid smiley face with that?

 

[asd9055]

Funny how you just sling mud without throwing out all those facts you're swimming in what with being the CEO of Exxon Mobil. Am I wrong about the corporate profits of the oil companies? Demonstrably not. Am I wrong about the unusual number of fires and shutdowns? Also no. Am I wrong about industry statements about not increasing refinery capacity? Still no. You are one of 148,610 Americans employed by the oil industry. For that you get a check, not a monopoly on economic realities. Or do I need a stupid smiley face with that?

Do you know how long and how difficult it is to license a new refinery build? It takes 20 years for studies just to get it permitted and no guaranteed you will get approved. With state after state trying outlaw gas powered cars by 2035, why would anyone invest the billions of dollars in something without a future?

 

[crashlanding]

Maybe, and I do say maybe, you guys seem way more intelligent than me, the oil and gas industry is sitting back and watching this whole s..t show explode in the blue face over the whole idea that electricity is the future fuel for the modern world. The vision is there but no real plan

 

[Raingull]

Do you know how long and how difficult it is to license a new refinery build? It takes 20 years for studies just to get it permitted and no guaranteed you will get approved. With state after state trying outlaw gas powered cars by 2035, why would anyone invest the billions of dollars in something without a future?

Yet they bid for every new prospect globally don't they? I don't wonder why that is but you must!

 

[Raingull]

Maybe, and I do say maybe, you guys seem way more intelligent than me, the oil and gas industry is sitting back and watching this whole s..t show explode in the blue face over the whole idea that electricity is the future fuel for the modern world. The vision is there but no real plan

Or maybe they are playing their part in the Great Reset.

 

[crashlanding]

How many years down the road is that?

 

[asd9055]

Yet they bid for every new prospect globally don't they? I don't wonder why that is but you must!

Global projects come on line in five years and permitting is a given. Returns are greater.