Superformance, 165 TTSX for 300 WSM ???

bachekermooni

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Well, If you do not hit [Post thread], and close the browser, you get to type all over again :-(

So, I have not found any loads for the combo above. So, I am using a bit of SWAG to try and see where to start - without wasting primers, powder, and bullets (hard to come by these days).

Hodgdon site has load data for 165 Nos Part. Barnes has data for 165 TTSX - but not for Superformance. So, I decided to look at the Max Load of powders that the two sites have in common and see where the potential starting point for Superf could be. Here is the Max Load data from both.

IMR 8208 XBR: Hodgdon - 54.4 ... Barnes - 56.3
H 4350: Hodgdon - 65.5 ... Barnes - 69.4c
Win 760: Hodgdon - 65.0 ... Barnes - 68.4c
Superf: Hodgdon - 72.0 ... Barnes - ???
Hodgdon recommends Min Load of 65.0 Superf for 165 Nos Part.

I am using CCI LRM primers, Norma once-fired brass (same Kimber 8400 Montana rifle), all prepped, shoulder set back 3 thou, and neck tension set to 2 thou. The 165 TTSX bullet is 2.934" COAL to lands - I load using BTO anyway. The mag length is 3" ish. Barnes site recommends 2.860" COAL. I want to start at 60 thou off - so approx 2.870".

Where should I start? I put 70 gn of Superf in a case, and there seemed plenty of space for the bullet without compressing.

Your advise is much appreciated.
 

QuietTexan

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Next time that happens open the browser again, hold Shift-Crtl, and hit "T" and see if it reloads what you closed. If it was just a tab you closed no need to open a new window, just hit the keystrokes. Works in IE and Chrome for me.
 

Quintus

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Superform and H414/Win760 behave about the same. I have used H414 data as a start point with quite a few cases with good results. 414 will general hit pressure before Superform.
 

MagnumManiac

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I would start at 70g and work up with the Superformance powder.
I’ve never used it personally, but should work with Barnes bullets. I’m using the same bullet in a RUM with factory Barnes ammo.
Good luck with it, I found those bullets accurate.

Cheers.
 

bachekermooni

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Thanks Everyone. I have to wait for the morning weather to cool a bit more.
I will start at 69.7 and go up in 0.3 until pressure does us part ;-)
 

Shortmagman

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I am looking at Hodgdon data for 165 HDY GMX a copper bullet similar to the TTSX Barnes bullets and they show 69.0 grains as the Max load. If you are using Norma brass with 70.0 grains i think you are 2-3 grains over max. Be careful!
 

bachekermooni

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I am looking at Hodgdon data for 165 HDY GMX a copper bullet similar to the TTSX Barnes bullets and they show 69.0 grains as the Max load. If you are using Norma brass with 70.0 grains i think you are 2-3 grains over max. Be careful!
Thanks. I had heard Norma bass has less capacity. I did give that full consideration. If you look at the same powders and loads that Hodgdon recommends for 165 GMX and Barnes recommend for 165 TTSX https://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/300-Win-Short-Mag.pdf, you will see a major discrepancy in Max Loads - Barnes is higher. Plus, unless I am mistaken, GMX is made of solid gilding metal, a harder substance than copper so perhaps it develops pressure at a lower charge weight!?
I will seriously reconsider and potentially start at say 67 and go up in 0.5 until 70. Appreciate your concern and advise.

Also, Hodgdon has the COL at 2.84" for 165 GMX as opposed to 2.86" for 165 TTSX by Barnes.
 

Shortmagman

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I had a few things happen that made me aware of starting loads and max loads when using different brass. I have loaded both 270 WSM and 300WSM for almost 20 years. Most of the time i have used Norma brass and according to my measurements Norma has 2 to 3 grains less capacity than WW or RP. So i loaded some 140 Nosler Accubonds in my 270WSM with a Bartlien barrel with one grain of RL-26 above the starting load in Norma brass and it was too hot.
 

bachekermooni

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I had a few things happen that made me aware of starting loads and max loads when using different brass. I have loaded both 270 WSM and 300WSM for almost 20 years. Most of the time i have used Norma brass and according to my measurements Norma has 2 to 3 grains less capacity than WW or RP. So i loaded some 140 Nosler Accubonds in my 270WSM with a Bartlien barrel with one grain of RL-26 above the starting load in Norma brass and it was too hot.
Wow. You know, come to think of it, when I loaded for Hornady 165 IB and Hunter powder, I was 1 gn below max and got heavy bolt lift. It was in 80f CA weather though. I had developed the load in Oct when still in MN for a MT Elk hunt.

I do have once-fired WW brass all prepped too. I will weigh them and see.

Cheers.
 

MagnumManiac

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I had a few things happen that made me aware of starting loads and max loads when using different brass. I have loaded both 270 WSM and 300WSM for almost 20 years. Most of the time i have used Norma brass and according to my measurements Norma has 2 to 3 grains less capacity than WW or RP. So i loaded some 140 Nosler Accubonds in my 270WSM with a Bartlien barrel with one grain of RL-26 above the starting load in Norma brass and it was too hot.
That is a very interesting piece of information. I have found almost a 10g difference in water weight between various Norma cases to other brands. The Norma case always held MORE water, not less.
When I was shooting a WSM, I only ever used re-formed Winchester (270WSM) cases necked down to .257” calibre.
This was back in 2001/2 and we had very dramatic pressure excursions with quite a few powders. Pressure tracked nicely then spiked unpredictably and caused all sorts of issues. If the load density wasn’t perfect, the charge would not ignite properly and the cases would get dents in the shoulders and powder soot all the way down the case body, it wasn’t sealing the chamber properly. Only 2 powders would perform normally, Win 780 and RE25.
This was the reason I bought a Pressure Trace II, it opened my eyes to a lot of things about internal ballistics….it cannot be predicted with any amount of certainty.

Cheers.
 

Shortmagman

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What is very interesting is i have loaded Norma. brass in 270 Win, 280 Rem etc. and Norma brass had greater volume than others. However i found this not to be true with WSM brass.
 

JRY46

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I ended up with 68 grains of Superformance behind the Barnes 168 TTSX. I never hit any pressure at that weight with my set up, but accuracy opened up beyond there. I think speed was around 3050ish.
 
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