straightness
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Graphite's an abrasive. It'll scratch anything short of a diamond it's rubbed on. I don't think that's a good thing to put in cases you're going to shoot bullets out of.
A better way to smooth up the neck's inside surfaces is to run a bore brush in and out a few times. Chuck one up in a drill press and you can go through a batch of cases pretty fast. That brush also smooths up the case mouth edges so they don't scratch bullets when they're seated.
LRHWAL
Well-Known Member
I've had pretty good results adjusting my expander up to mimic the Forster type set-up in the calibers that I don't have Forsters for. (I think Kirby recommended it somewhere here some time ago.) You can get the expander to engage the neck whilst the top part of the neck is still in the neck sizing part of the die. Screw the expander waaay up, but feel what you are doing with a case.
This doesn't work on Redding dies, but does on my RCBS.
You will need to decap separately.
I'm interested as to what the experienced gentlemen consider "too much neck tension" - more than 3 thou under loaded round OD? or? Thanks.
Flashhole - I don't lock the dies down tight anymore. I've tried your suggestion many times. worked great, but.... the slop in the threads means that once I tighten the lock ring, as soon as the case is extracted and there is no upward pressure on the die, I can't remove it. If you have a technique to get around this please share it, as I always wondered how anyone got around this. I hope the solution is not spelled "wrench"...
As an aside and something not mentioned here thusfar, you need to be sure that your necks are square - like after trimming with a decent trimmer (like Wilson). I believe this helps sizing straight (depending on the fit of cast otdie) and certainly helps seating straight. You also need to chamfer inside the case neck to asssit in seating straight and I find a gentle taper better (I use a countersink bit). Then I believe you need to try to start the bullet into the case straight by placing it straight(ish) in the neck before you push the ram down.
This doesn't work on Redding dies, but does on my RCBS.
You will need to decap separately.
I'm interested as to what the experienced gentlemen consider "too much neck tension" - more than 3 thou under loaded round OD? or? Thanks.
Flashhole - I don't lock the dies down tight anymore. I've tried your suggestion many times. worked great, but.... the slop in the threads means that once I tighten the lock ring, as soon as the case is extracted and there is no upward pressure on the die, I can't remove it. If you have a technique to get around this please share it, as I always wondered how anyone got around this. I hope the solution is not spelled "wrench"...
As an aside and something not mentioned here thusfar, you need to be sure that your necks are square - like after trimming with a decent trimmer (like Wilson). I believe this helps sizing straight (depending on the fit of cast otdie) and certainly helps seating straight. You also need to chamfer inside the case neck to asssit in seating straight and I find a gentle taper better (I use a countersink bit). Then I believe you need to try to start the bullet into the case straight by placing it straight(ish) in the neck before you push the ram down.
Buffalobob
Well-Known Member
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boomtube
Well-Known Member
Shortest path to straighter necks is Lee's Collet Neck Sizer.
For "FL" sizing and setting the shoulders back use a body or shoulder bump die.
If the inner bore of a neck isn't coaxial with the outside, no die will fix it. That will require neck turning by a careful worker who understands what he's doing.
For "FL" sizing and setting the shoulders back use a body or shoulder bump die.
If the inner bore of a neck isn't coaxial with the outside, no die will fix it. That will require neck turning by a careful worker who understands what he's doing.
I do use a wrench but I'm kind of wierd in that I don't mind setting the die up every time I use it. I don't think I own a die that has a locked die ring except for my pistol. Those are locked on the turret and I never change the settings.
While a Lee collet die may be the shortest path to straight case necks, it ain't what's used to make ammo that wins most of the high power rifle position and benchrest matches and set some records along the way.
The smallest many-shot groups I know of have all been shot with cases full length sized with their neck diameter 1 or 2 thousandths smaller than a loaded round's neck diameter. And they set the fired case shoulder back 2 thousandths. All rounds fired in standard SAAMI dimensioned chambers.
RCBS and Redding make dies like these. They use bushings (interchangeable between makes, too) sized in 1 thousandth increments for virtually all calibers. Sierra Bullets uses the Redding ones for cases they're made for to test their bullets for accuracy. Other cases get sized in standard Redding full length sizing dies. I doubt anybody shoots their bullets more accurate than they do. And Sierra's test barrels have standard SAAMI chambers.
Why do anything different? Probably 'cause one thinks another die or method works better. The benchresters are moving nowadays to full length bushing dies.
The smallest many-shot groups I know of have all been shot with cases full length sized with their neck diameter 1 or 2 thousandths smaller than a loaded round's neck diameter. And they set the fired case shoulder back 2 thousandths. All rounds fired in standard SAAMI dimensioned chambers.
RCBS and Redding make dies like these. They use bushings (interchangeable between makes, too) sized in 1 thousandth increments for virtually all calibers. Sierra Bullets uses the Redding ones for cases they're made for to test their bullets for accuracy. Other cases get sized in standard Redding full length sizing dies. I doubt anybody shoots their bullets more accurate than they do. And Sierra's test barrels have standard SAAMI chambers.
Why do anything different? Probably 'cause one thinks another die or method works better. The benchresters are moving nowadays to full length bushing dies.
Mikecr
Well-Known Member
Does Sierra compete?
boomtube
Well-Known Member
"it ain't what's used to make ammo that wins most of the high power rifle position and benchrest matches and set some records along the way.
...The smallest many-shot groups I know of have all been shot with cases full length sized with their neck diameter 1 or 2 thousandths smaller than a loaded round's neck diameter. And they set the fired case shoulder back 2 thousandths. All rounds fired in standard SAAMI dimensioned chambers....RCBS and Redding make (bushing) dies like these. ... (Lee collets) ain't what's used to make ammo that wins most of the high power rifle position and benchrest matches and set some records along the way."
Bart, yes. And those guys virtually always have tight ("SAAMI" ?) barrels and chambers too. Very few winners in any game are shooting normal factory barreled rifles, certainly not the BR shooters. For the significanty looser factory chambers the rest of us use, Lee's neck die does all that can helpfully be done, and do it much easier and at far less cost than any bushing neck sizer. Factory rifles and chambers are as different from serious match rifles as NASCAR Fords are different from our Fords, so their loading methods are much different from what will do us any good. But, needed or not, the fellows selling bushing dies are quiet happy to provide them to those willing to buy 'em.
Properly using a body die and a Lee collet neck die in combo does, effectively, "FL" size. And the sized necks will typically be one or two thou smaller than loaded rounds, that's one of the things I love about that die.
Sizing and setting case shoulders back properly only requires that the loader know what he's doing, no special die is required. Given the normal variations in case hardness and springback, setting shoulders back any consistant and precise amount, to a thousanth, would require a miracle, not a die.
I've never heard of serious BR shooters using threaded dies of any kind in a conventional press other than for case reforming and an occasional "FL" resizing with a body die, but certainly not for their competition shots, have you?
...The smallest many-shot groups I know of have all been shot with cases full length sized with their neck diameter 1 or 2 thousandths smaller than a loaded round's neck diameter. And they set the fired case shoulder back 2 thousandths. All rounds fired in standard SAAMI dimensioned chambers....RCBS and Redding make (bushing) dies like these. ... (Lee collets) ain't what's used to make ammo that wins most of the high power rifle position and benchrest matches and set some records along the way."
Bart, yes. And those guys virtually always have tight ("SAAMI" ?) barrels and chambers too. Very few winners in any game are shooting normal factory barreled rifles, certainly not the BR shooters. For the significanty looser factory chambers the rest of us use, Lee's neck die does all that can helpfully be done, and do it much easier and at far less cost than any bushing neck sizer. Factory rifles and chambers are as different from serious match rifles as NASCAR Fords are different from our Fords, so their loading methods are much different from what will do us any good. But, needed or not, the fellows selling bushing dies are quiet happy to provide them to those willing to buy 'em.
Properly using a body die and a Lee collet neck die in combo does, effectively, "FL" size. And the sized necks will typically be one or two thou smaller than loaded rounds, that's one of the things I love about that die.
Sizing and setting case shoulders back properly only requires that the loader know what he's doing, no special die is required. Given the normal variations in case hardness and springback, setting shoulders back any consistant and precise amount, to a thousanth, would require a miracle, not a die.
I've never heard of serious BR shooters using threaded dies of any kind in a conventional press other than for case reforming and an occasional "FL" resizing with a body die, but certainly not for their competition shots, have you?
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