Sticky extraction

[Steves1911]

Have a savage 110 tactical 300 win with 80rnds through it now. Working up handloads with hornady brass 208gr eldm cci magnum primer H1000. Seating them .020 off coal of 3.59. Was working my way from 78-79 grains and got sticky extraction on 78.7 and 79gr loads. Bolt lift was normal primers not flat and no other indication of pressure. 79grs produced a 5shot group of .667" at 100yds really low es&sd avg 3052fps. 78grs produced a .570 group with low es &sd but not quite as low as the higher charge. Ive had sticky bolt lift from overpressure rounds but never sticky extraction. This was 3rd firing of these cases and they have always just had the shoulders bumped back .02. Maybe its time to anneal and fl size them?

 

[BoomFlop]

I would check case length. Could be growth in the neck?

I'm sure someone far more knowledgeable will get you some better ideas.

Good luck,
Steve

 

[Steves1911]

Case length is right at the trim to length according to hornady. Have yet to have to trim cases yet hornady brass is rather short when new.

 

[BoomFlop]

What is Hornady's max load for the 208 ELDm? I believe 78grains of H1000 with the Amax is listed as max at 78 grains.

 

[Steves1911]

78 is listed max with a much shorter coal

 

[Mikecr]

Sticky extraction, while not from an over pressure load, is from excess clearance near webs, leading to a lot of brass yielding on firing, then leading to interference fit with the chamber. Or, the action timing is poor.
If you find that you need to increase near web sizing more & more to get viable extraction, then it's time to discard the chamber & start over with a better one.

Measure new & fired cases at peak diameter(at webline). If difference is beyond 0.0015", your chamber sucks for a match.
Also make sure your bolt contacts the extraction ramp early as possible.

There is another possibility -not enough breach support.

 

[sedancowboy]

Savage's are famous for poor primary extraction. Check how much you have by putting a feeler gauge between the bolt shroud and the action. You can see as you raise the bolt slowly if the angled ramps meet before the bolt is fully open?

 

[Steves1911]

Very interesting Mikecr. Should this problem have shown up sooner if it were a chamber issue? Its never done this before either with my loads or factory hornady. Sedancowboy i will have to check that out I dont have a lot of experience with Savage rifles.

 

[dfanonymous]

Sticky extraction, while not from an over pressure load, is from excess clearance near webs, leading to a lot of brass yielding on firing, then leading to interference fit with the chamber. Or, the action timing is poor.
If you find that you need to increase near web sizing more & more to get viable extraction, then it's time to discard the chamber & start over with a better one.

Measure new & fired cases at peak diameter(at webline). If difference is beyond 0.0015", your chamber sucks for a match.
Also make sure your bolt contacts the extraction ramp early as possible.

There is another possibility -not enough breach support.

What are these webs?

 

[243winxb]

May need this http://www.larrywillis.com/

 

[David Emerson]

Have a savage 110 tactical 300 win with 80rnds through it now. Working up handloads with hornady brass 208gr eldm cci magnum primer H1000. Seating them .020 off coal of 3.59. Was working my way from 78-79 grains and got sticky extraction on 78.7 and 79gr loads. Bolt lift was normal primers not flat and no other indication of pressure. 79grs produced a 5shot group of .667" at 100yds really low es&sd avg 3052fps. 78grs produced a .570 group with low es &sd but not quite as low as the higher charge. Ive had sticky bolt lift from overpressure rounds but never sticky extraction. This was 3rd firing of these cases and they have always just had the shoulders bumped back .02. Maybe its time to anneal and fl size them?

As always it is so hard to have an answer when not on site and involved. Are your primer pockets getting looser? In a factory gun I am assuming a 26 inch barrel. A factory 300 roy or ultra will not get the speed you are getting. I had a 300 accumark that was not accurate until I ran it through the roof. I may be off the mark here but I am thinking you have an oversize barrel that needs pressure to bump the bullet up to be accurate. Try FL resize and see. But if your primers are getting loose after 2 or 3 shots back down to a lower node and try that. Hornady brass is softer too. Try Winchester brass if you need to push it that hard to get it to shoot.

 

[tim_w]

Measure the sticky cases just ahead of the belt and compare to one with one firing on it. Also measure and compre right at the shoulder body junction.

 

[Steves1911]

Ok I have looked the rifle and brass over and sure enough my 3x fired brass is .002 thicker just above the belt then new. I will have to try one of those larry willis dies a try. Never loaded a belted mag before though I would get more firings on a case with just bumping the shoulder. Going to try to find some better brass too see if that helps any. I appreciate all the help.

 

[Mikecr]

fired brass is .002 thicker just above the belt then new. I will have to try one of those larry willis dies a try.

The LW small base die will work to get cases chambering freely. But this approach will not work around the extraction problem for long, and it won't stop pockets from opening.

Brass wants to go where it's been
Popping extraction brass that was not subject to over-pressure and resting 2thou larger means your chamber clearance there is ~2thou. This is larger than needed at webs, and nothing is free.
If this is not a magnum action then you also lack breach support for a magnum diameter cartridge.
On firing the case expands to chamber, while the chamber itself is expanding. If this is an excess distance the case will yield, and will not spring back enough to clear the chamber once pressure has dropped. Extraction, then difficult, eventually pops past this interference fit with the chamber.
You can squish the brass way back down -but it will forever want to go right back where it has been -until annealed to lose that memory.

The camp that still believes more clearances are better remind me of shade tree mechanics of the early 70s.
Their hot rod engines were not reliable, and their fix (higher clearances) was actually the cause from the git-go.
They were already too high...
Engines last so much longer today because clearances are way tighter and better controlled.