Stick will 7mm WSM or switch to 7mm 08

[elktaker]

I currently have a Savage SA originally in 7mm WSM (large shank) in a XLR element. I am currently target shooting and coyote hunting with a shilen 6x223 bull barrel I pickup up use. It has been shooting .25 MOA groups routinely with 70 gr NBT.

I am looking at getting a new barrel for in 7mm (the factory one seems to throw random flyers and is showing its age). It has shot sub 2" 200 yard groups out of factory stock discounting a flyer every 5 to 7 shots. I have not fired the factory barrel with the xlr chassis. I have been looking at 7mm 08 and 7mm wsm for new barrel options.

I plan to shot 150 gr Nosler Accubonds Long Range and have a box of 100 ready for the spring. Suggested 1300 fps for min expansion.

Data I cam up with:

7mm wsm should push them 3100 fps without any problems (I am already pushing 168 berger to 3050 fps with H4350)

7mm 08 is estimated 2700 to 2800.

I will mostly elk hunt with this barrel and would like to start shooting out to 1000 yd (I already shot my 6x223 out to 600 yd and have taken an elk at 425 yd with my current 7mm wsm barrel).

Gseven ballistic are showing the 7mm 08(at 2800fps) shooting the bullets just over 1600fps at 1000 yards and has 1200 ft-lb of energy out to about 700 yards (which 700 would be a shoot I would attempt with a very lite wind and confidence with the caliber and rifle.

So question is, Is the lost in velocity worth it?

Pros for 7mm 08(I came up with researching):

cost to reload (currently fireforum norma 300 wsm) and easier
barrel life

I am looking at any 7mm caliber for short action except Rem SUAM (too close to WSM to get new dies)

Thanks for any input planning to order a new barrel with income taxes and get it ready for Utah's elk and buck season next year.

 

[Jud96]

I currently have a Savage SA originally in 7mm WSM (large shank) in a XLR element. I am currently target shooting and coyote hunting with a shilen 6x223 bull barrel I pickup up use. It has been shooting .25 MOA groups routinely with 70 gr NBT.

I am looking at getting a new barrel for in 7mm (the factory one seems to throw random flyers and is showing its age). It has shot sub 2" 200 yard groups out of factory stock discounting a flyer every 5 to 7 shots. I have not fired the factory barrel with the xlr chassis. I have been looking at 7mm 08 and 7mm wsm for new barrel options.

I plan to shot 150 gr Nosler Accubonds Long Range and have a box of 100 ready for the spring. Suggested 1300 fps for min expansion.

Data I cam up with:

7mm wsm should push them 3100 fps without any problems (I am already pushing 168 berger to 3050 fps with H4350)

7mm 08 is estimated 2700 to 2800.

I will mostly elk hunt with this barrel and would like to start shooting out to 1000 yd (I already shot my 6x223 out to 600 yd and have taken an elk at 425 yd with my current 7mm wsm barrel).

Gseven ballistic are showing the 7mm 08(at 2800fps) shooting the bullets just over 1600fps at 1000 yards and has 1200 ft-lb of energy out to about 700 yards (which 700 would be a shoot I would attempt with a very lite wind and confidence with the caliber and rifle.

So question is, Is the lost in velocity worth it?

Pros for 7mm 08(I came up with researching):

cost to reload (currently fireforum norma 300 wsm) and easier
barrel life

I am looking at any 7mm caliber for short action except Rem SUAM (too close to WSM to get new dies)

Thanks for any input planning to order a new barrel with income taxes and get it ready for Utah's elk and buck season next year.

I would stick with the 7mm WSM. It is an excellent cartridge and is truly a long range cartridge that is equal to the long 7mm Rem. Mag. compared to the 7mm-08 which has a lot less velocity and energy. I would stay with the 7 WSM.

 

[skyfish25]

I would second the 7mm WSM. It will do it all, and you have the stuff. No bolt face change needed(7mm-08). I shoot the 7mm SAUM(no offense taken) and feel this size of cartridge is a great do it all.

Really looking forward to the new RL-23 and -26 coming out as well. Make sure you post pics when done.

 

[KYpatriot]

You can always load to a slower node in the wsm but you can't turn up the 7-08. The wsm is more versatile.

You could put a shorter barrel on the wsm, run lighter bullets with easy loads and still outperform the 7-08 with the option to crank it up when you need to

 

[mattri]

Definitely stick with the short mag. As was said lots more options and the 7-08 is very finicky. The numbers look great but having built two I'll never try to get one to shoot again. It can be done but what a pain in the keester.

 

[bigngreen]

If your stuck on the 150 ALR I'd go 7mm-08 personally as it's going to fit it better for velocity and impact speeds, if I were building a 7 WSM I'd only shoot Berger 180 Hybrids and single load them to take full advantage of the case, the 150 ALR will be less than ideal on elk at WSM velocities!!!!

 

[elktaker]

I am not suck with 150 gr. I currently have been shooting 168 bergers VLD for elk and just yesterday got lucky and won an auction for 168 Accu LR (200 for $100 not too bad for being out of stock everywhere) which I want to try in my old barrel before buying a new one. If i can eliminate flyers may keep using the old wsm and add a 7mm-08 for practice my long range shooting that way I can shot similar bullets.

168gr is about as heavy as I will go since the High BC that are heavier will not fit in my mag. (I prefer not to single load for hunting)

If barrel still has flyers, the verdict is another WSM.

 

[scottishkat]

I think the wsm is it. The 7mm08 is a great round out to 3-400 after that its just okay especially on elk. You have the wsm action how would it handle the .473 case of the 7mm08 modifications to the extractor etc make the choice pretty easy IMO.

You want a hunting rig so probably 26" bbl max anything longer would be better for the 7mm08 for longer range. If you want to get a better BC you could try the 6.5 wsm looks very good with 140's but I still think the 7mm wsm is better with 160's for elk sized game.

Good luck and shoot straight.

Bob

 

[LoneTraveler]

I wonder about couple unknown. How many rounds does the barrel have shot through it? Have you shot enough rounds it is time to replace the barrel. Have you chronographed the shots at the range? A shot going now and then a fowl makes me wonder. I would check the firing pin spring pressure. I have worked on guns people say "It needs a new barrel shooting 2 to 4 inch groups at 100 yds." Replace the Main spring and it comes right back to shooting tight groups. I have seen a batch of bad primers varie velocity as much as 200 fps. Chronographing the gun will tell you a lot. I would keep the 7 mm WSM. If the bolt face has to be changed, Save the money and use that to help feed the Magnum.

 

[elktaker]

I think the wsm is it. The 7mm08 is a great round out to 3-400 after that its just okay especially on elk. You have the wsm action how would it handle the .473 case of the 7mm08 modifications to the extractor etc make the choice pretty easy IMO.
Bob

I would have to get another bolt face. I already switch to 6x223 from WSM. Bolt face conversion runs 40ish bucks and takes me 5 minutes to switch. Cost difference between brass would make it up.

I wonder about couple unknown. How many rounds does the barrel have shot through it? Have you shot enough rounds it is time to replace the barrel. Have you chronographed the shots at the range? A shot going now and then a fowl makes me wonder. I would check the firing pin spring pressure. I have worked on guns people say "It needs a new barrel shooting 2 to 4 inch groups at 100 yds." Replace the Main spring and it comes right back to shooting tight groups. I have seen a batch of bad primers varie velocity as much as 200 fps. Chronographing the gun will tell you a lot. I would keep the 7 mm WSM. If the bolt face has to be changed, Save the money and use that to help feed the Magnum.

Unfortunately, the gun was bought used with WSM barrel. It has the older Savage action bolt spacing and I think if was produced in 2000 or 2001. I have shot about 200 -168 berger VLDs and 25 -168 berger Hybrids for fireforming some norma brass.

I have chronograph-ed shots a the range. Last time I had the chronograph out this summer before elk season.

81 degrees
7500 ft (elevation)
Shooting 200 yards
5 minute break between shots for cooling.
shot prone with tripod and rear bag.
Slight 3 mph wind at 1 oclock

1 - 3102 fps
2 - 3096
3 - 3116
4 - 3108
5 - 3089

Shots 1 2 3 and 5 produced 1.21" group (.6 MOA)
Shot 4 moved the group to +3" and was low right.
(+1.5 MOA to me is not acceptable for long range hunting applications)

This is pretty normal with one random shot off. These where 168 berger VLDs loaded to mag length which could also be the culprit, so I am pretty far off the lands. Load is on the hot side. I have started at 2800 fps (cannot find my load book at the moment for load data) and gun did not group until a velocity of over 3000 fps is reached. I tried H4350, IMR4350, RL17, RL19 and RL22. H4350 is the only powder that got accuracy without pressure signs. I was using IMR 4350 but cannot find it in Southern Utah anywhere.

Also every powder tested is giving me pressure problems at published max and this is with both norma 300 wsm fireformed and Win. 7mm wsm brass.

I have not shot the 7mm WSM out of my XLR element chassis yet so hoping to rule the old stock out in the spring, but looking at lead times I would need to order a new barrel soon to make sure I have time to get load ready for hunting next Oct.

Been looking at thebarrelman.com $359 for prefit Shilen SS sound pretty good to me. Think of 27" 1:8 twist.

 

[elkaholic]

I am not suck with 150 gr. I currently have been shooting 168 bergers VLD for elk and just yesterday got lucky and won an auction for 168 Accu LR (200 for $100 not too bad for being out of stock everywhere) which I want to try in my old barrel before buying a new one. If i can eliminate flyers may keep using the old wsm and add a 7mm-08 for practice my long range shooting that way I can shot similar bullets.

168gr is about as heavy as I will go since the High BC that are heavier will not fit in my mag. (I prefer not to single load for hunting)

If barrel still has flyers, the verdict is another WSM.

Hi Elktaker......I recently moved to Ut. and will be living in Grantsville.
In your post, you mentioned not wanting to single load and that you fire form 300 cases for your current 7 WSM. Sounds to me like you need to consider my new 7 SS. From the data that you listed, it should equal your results and not be limited to single feeding. It is a necked up version of my 6.5 SS, which has been a great performer, and it is throated to be able to cycle the 168 Bergers through the mag with bullets positioned properly in the neck. It uses less powder and is more efficient that the WSM case. It also has a much better neck (.333") and a 40 degree shoulder, both of which will increase barrel life............Rich

 

[elktaker]

Hi Elktaker......I recently moved to Ut. and will be living in Grantsville.
In your post, you mentioned not wanting to single load and that you fire form 300 cases for your current 7 WSM. Sounds to me like you need to consider my new 7 SS. From the data that you listed, it should equal your results and not be limited to single feeding. It is a necked up version of my 6.5 SS, which has been a great performer, and it is throated to be able to cycle the 168 Bergers through the mag with bullets positioned properly in the neck. It uses less powder and is more efficient that the WSM case. It also has a much better neck (.333") and a 40 degree shoulder, both of which will increase barrel life............Rich

I am in southern Utah near Boulder Mountain. Usually switch elk hunting between boulder and fish lake for cows.

Not sure what cartilage you are referring to as the 7 SS. Is this a 7mm-08 Ackley Improved?

 

[elkaholic]

No, this is one of the wildcats that I developed most recently. It is based on the saum case. It is shortened, taper blown out, shoulder sharpened, and given a longer neck. We are getting 3100'+ with 160's and 3200'+ with 150's in the 6.5 version with a 26" barrel. The 7 SS with 168's should be able to reach 3100'. Because of the design of the case, we have lost no velocity (probably gained) and are now able to cycle through short action rifles (no single feeding). You would not have to make any modifications with your WSM action. If you are interested, shoot me a pm and we can chat...........Rich

 

[elktaker]

No, this is one of the wildcats that I developed most recently. It is based on the saum case. It is shortened, taper blown out, shoulder sharpened, and given a longer neck. We are getting 3100'+ with 160's and 3200'+ with 150's in the 6.5 version with a 26" barrel. The 7 SS with 168's should be able to reach 3100'. Because of the design of the case, we have lost no velocity (probably gained) and are now able to cycle through short action rifles (no single feeding). You would not have to make any modifications with your WSM action. If you are interested, shoot me a pm and we can chat...........Rich

pm sent