Spreadsheet to determine best long range hunting cartridge

[packgoatguy]

This seems rigged, out of the gate.
This being a long range site, most on here are making hot chili.
There are too many non SAAMI cartridges to even make this a fare.
Wonder what a post about SAAMI vs. non SAAMI loads would leave for a fairer comparison

Other than the 338LMI that I threw in to represent the "hot end" of the 338 capabilities... Each of the cartridges compared is a "factory" or OTC option from either Hornady or Nosler. Im not saying this is a comprehensive list, but they are comparing their advertised velocities for the compared bullets. If there are other cartridges or more realistic velocities that I should add to the list, please let me know.

 

[BigGrizz]

This seems rigged, out of the gate.
This being a long range site, most on here are making hot chili.
There are too many non SAAMI cartridges to even make this a fare.
Wonder what a post about SAAMI vs. non SAAMI loads would leave for a fairer comparison

Agreed. I've put together 250gr Elite Hunter loads cooking at 3100fps.

 

[packgoatguy]

Agreed. I've put together 250gr Elite Hunter loads cooking at 3100fps.

If someone could provide me with a list of "hottest" safe bullet weights/velocities/BC data for each of these cartridges, I could add them in, or even make another chart side by side. I think that would be interesting, as some of the cartridges will have more room to be pushed than others.

 

[Hand Skills]

Interesting. I actually found the opposite with my 24 inch barreled Tikka 300wm... about 25fps slower than was advertised for the ELD-X.

However, that brings up a good point... at what point would it make a difference? Adding 50fps to the 7RM only puts it up to the advertised velocity of the 7WSM, but still less than the 7STW... which is still less than the 7MM RUM or 28 Nosler... So, if someone had to pick "just one" cartridge to do it all... then what advantage would the 7RM have over the 28nosler? Some non-performance related issues come to mind (like availability of ammo, cost of ammo, etc) but if one were merely comparing on the basis of accuracy and effectiveness... are there other things to consider?

Exactly, and I think that's why ultimately we all have to make our own spreadsheets. To me, as a reloader comparing wimpy factory 300win loads to optimistic 7WSM ballistics is of zero value. To me, maybe cost of brass is a factor - but I'm possibly in a different country so my values there (or for loaded ammo for that matter) will probably be different.

Don't get me wrong - I appreciate the work and I enjoy reviewing other's data, but I don't think there is such thing as a master spreadsheet to calculate the best long range cartridge for everyone.

 

[BigGrizz]

If someone could provide me with a list of "hottest" safe bullet weights/velocities/BC data for each of these cartridges, I could add them in, or even make another chart side by side. I think that would be interesting, as some of the cartridges will have more room to be pushed than others.

I could see that as a good tool/resource to have. However, sooner or later safety will be called into question as it's relative.

 

[packgoatguy]

Exactly, and I think that's why ultimately we all have to make our own spreadsheets. To me, as a reloader comparing wimpy factory 300win loads to optimistic 7WSM ballistics is of zero value. To me, maybe cost of brass is a factor - but I'm possibly in a different country so my values there (or for loaded ammo for that matter) will probably be different.

Don't get me wrong - I appreciate the work and I enjoy reviewing other's data, but I don't think there is such thing as a master spreadsheet to calculate the best long range cartridge for everyone.

Do you believe that this is comparing wimpy 300win to optimistic 7WSM? Hornady advertised 2850 for the 300wm and 3000 for the 7wsm. Are you suggesting that these values are inaccurate? My purpose here is to produce a comparable baseline to assess the advantages of the various cartridges side by side, apples to apples.

I would assume that even if a particular shooter can handload his 7mmRM and get 3050fps using the same 162gr ELDX bullets being used for this baseline, (which would be higher than the factory advertised velocity of 2940), then that same shooter could likewise handload a 338 or a 28nosler to get additional velocity from that as well correct?

My question is, at what point (using the same bullets, same barrel length, and all other variables all being kept the same) does one cartridge or the other "beat" its competition? Each of these cartridges would have to have some sort of a ceiling for the maximum safe pressures that they could yield... and at some point, those max velocities could be put side by side... However, statistically speaking, I would bet that the velocities achieved by manufactures like hornady for the cartridges and loadings they offer, so long as you are using the same "style" of bullets for the comparison, will represent the same difference.

UNLESS (and this is the part I don't know from personal experience) do some of the available long range cartridge options have MORE room until they reach that ceiling of max velocity than others? That would change the outcome of the analysis.

 

[davsco]

I just added the ELDX 7mm STW for you.

superthanks! too bad they ain't making it with 175eldx, thinking the numbers would be WAY up there on your ranking!

 

[packgoatguy]

superthanks! too bad they ain't making it with 175eldx, thinking the numbers would be WAY up there on your ranking!

Yea, Hornady is definitely some high BC values with their offerings. I do like that the Nosler ABLR bullets are supposed to perform down to 1300fps though... that is awesome. Has anyone had any experience with the ABLR at 1300-1500fps? Do they expand reliably as advertised?

 

[Hand Skills]

From a handloader's perspective, yes the 300win is capable of at least 100fps more. The 7WSM? I'm skeptical...

Ammo manufacturers play a game where the newest cartridges get loaded to the fullest potential and older cartridges do not.

Not all cartridges are rated to the same pressures. For example the 7mm RM has been derated by SAAMI from 65kpsi to 61kpsi. But the 7WSM is 65kpsi. The 300win is 64kpsi, but that 2850fps load is nowhere near it... 'Apples to apples' is a slippery slope.

In fact I'll retract my previous suggestion of changing the data. Keep it 'apples to apples' with factory loads, it will be most useful this way!

Yes, some cartridges do have 'more room' for improvement than others, and that's part of what makes reloading so fascinating!

 

[packgoatguy]

From a handloader's perspective, yes the 300win is capable of at least 100fps more. The 7WSM? I'm skeptical...

Ammo manufacturers play a game where the newest cartridges get loaded to the fullest potential and older cartridges do not.

Not all cartridges are rated to the same pressures. For example the 7mm RM has been derated by SAAMI from 65kpsi to 61kpsi. But the 7WSM is 65kpsi. The 300win is 64kpsi, but that 2850fps load is nowhere near it... 'Apples to apples' is a slippery slope.

In fact I'll retract my previous suggestion of changing the data. Keep it 'apples to apples' with factory loads, it will be most useful this way!

Yes, some cartridges do have 'more room' for improvement than others, and that's part of what makes reloading so fascinating!

any other heavy for caliber factory loads from other manufacturers? High BC options that have proven expansion capabilities that I should add to the comparison?

 

[davsco]

well if you don't mind revisiting the 7stw 175 double tap partitions, would like to see how they stack up. when i've run them, energy only, they've outdone most of the 300 mags. i'm relatively new to longer range hunting and elk hunting, but my understanding is partitions and accubonds are some of the tops for this.

 

[257Tony]

Add in the 28 Nosler with a 180 ELD-M at 3200 fps mv, that's a safe, achievable number in lots of 28's. Should get you close to a mile and stay above 1600.

 

[TG-5150]

This seems rigged, out of the gate.
This being a long range site, most on here are making hot chili.
There are too many non SAAMI cartridges to even make this a fare.
Wonder what a post about SAAMI vs. non SAAMI loads would leave for a fairer comparison

Not sure how to respond to your original thread, I tried and it didn't work.
The wife and I have two SAAMI cartridges in the house, a 7RM and a 25-06, oh, and a .22lr and .17hmr.
The others are A.I'd (not SAAMI).
The next three builds we are going with are all off the Sherman line.
I'm not meaning to pick crap with the hens but I will say that shortly after joining this site I found better cartridge options....better meaning, for me. I've always not been afraid of "outside of box". And outside of SAAMI is were the true gains are at, for me at least.

 

[TG-5150]

ibtried double replying, guess I don't know how that works yet, but aim was at the o.p.' response to the quote above