Splitting hairs 6.8

[Steelflight]

This is a rant. Just to be clear. 6.8 western has Just gotten a big announcement of its release and I can't help but look at this and go. "Now your uselessly splitting hairs. Now I appreciate that everyone has their tastes. I would love to be corrected. But this one looks like a browning and winchester rather than actually use an already established cartridge. They are trying to produce a new one all together. They doing what alot have wanted for years. Longer breach for longer bullet from case. Calling it the usual "this is the best!"
However you can bet they just want to start the next 338. lapua fever.

Rant over. Thsnks

 

[P7M13]

Did the PRC hoopla make you equally febrile?

 

[JakeC]

I just heard about the Westerner last night. I saw Ron spomer's upload and almost choked on my beer giggling. It is both hilarious and endearing. They made a 270 SAUM. Or a 270 PRC. Or a short action 270. It's like when you're having a good laugh with your boys then the newest guy in the group says something really dumb really loud and everyone just kinda smiles politely and checks their phone. If you need a teensy bit more mass than a 6.5 and really need a tiny bit less kick than a 7mm this oughta blow your skirt up I guess. Maybe it'll get popular and drive development for modern .277 bullets in faster twist barrels. More options is a good thing. But still... The last hair has indeed been split. Well. There's one more that I think everyone does want: a fast twist 130 grain quarter bore. the .250, uh, the .250 scoots?

 

[257Tony]

New cartridges aren't usually about filling an actual need, other than the need for the gun/ammo companies to shore up their bottom line. Which is crazy right now, as more guns and ammo have been sold in the last year than probably any other year ever.

 

[RedDirtRifleman]

One more benefit of this is if the SAAMI spec calls for a 1:8 or 7.5 twist barrel, it's gonna help spur more companies to make faster twist .277" barrels for their older cartridges. Everybody has known heavy bullets and fast twists are good, but there was no factory ammo demanding it for the .270 Win or WSM. 27 Nosler and 6.8 Western do demand it.

 

[DJ Fergus]

I'm no 277 enthusiast. But honestly, there's no magic caliber. Even the bore sizes I'm partial to, there's nothing special about those bore sizes. What's special is the availability of wind resisting high b c. bullets that's consistent in weight & form and that's not finicky about seating depth. The 170 eol is a good example. Some case designs seem to be less finicky & sometimes yield wider nodes with popular powders matched up with these heavy for caliber bullets. Will the 6.8 Western be a non finicky round yielding wide nodes? It's likely that it will, but only time will tell. It seems that Browning & Winchester wanted to get their names put in the game, so they done it with the 6.8 Western. They're in buisness to make money and this is their attempt to sell more rifles and ammunition. That's fairly self explanatory. So for the folks that are .277 enthusiasts, here's another offering. If a fellow is hand loading long, heavy, high b.c. bullets in a saami or long throated, fast twist 270 win with a slow burning high bulk density powder: then he's probably already fairly close to factory velocities of the 6.8 Western. For some one who's going to handload the 6.8 Western, he can possibly get another 150fps with the right slow burning powder. And if that's not fast enough, there's the 27 Nosler. So there's really no room for .277 enthusiasts to complain. Plenty of options on the table. For those who want a fast twist 270 Winchester or 270wsm, there's a pile of gunsmiths who will chamber up a fast twist 270 win barrel and put it on. For those who are happy with what they already have, that's an even better scenario because they won't be spending any money for another rifle. Will I be buying a 6.8 Western? I'm not really compelled to or not to buy a 6.8 Western either way.

On a side note: Ron Spomer writes articles for a living. He doesn't know anymore than anyone else who can go to an online ballistic calculator and figure out. A little more case capacity equals a little more velocity and longer freebore keeps long heavy bullets from being seated way deep in the case, this is also self explanatory.

 

[PRCLITE]

I can't find a ballistic calculator that has this cartridge available to run. Can someone point me in the right direction?

 

[DJ Fergus]

I can't find a ballistic calculator that has this cartridge available to run. Can someone point me in the right direction?

Find the ballistic coefficient for which ever of the factory loaded 6.8 Western bullets. Example: 165 ablr = .620 G1. I believe they estimate 2980 muzzle velocity. Go to JBMballistics.com then go to calculators then go to trajectory. Put in .620 under B.C. and make sure it's set to G1. Then plug in muzzle velocity and hit calculate. Alot of the settings will be set to a default. This will get you a really close idea of the ballistics of the 6.8 Western.

 

[PRCLITE]

Find the ballistic coefficient for which ever of the factory loaded 6.8 Western bullets. Example: 165 ablr = .620 G1. I believe they estimate 2980 muzzle velocity. Go to JBMballistics.com then go to calculators then go to trajectory. Put in .620 under B.C. and make sure it's set to G1. Then plug in muzzle velocity and hit calculate. Alot of the settings will be set to a default. This will get you a really close idea of the ballistics of the 6.8 Western.

I appreciate it!

 

[Quintus]

The timing is just about perfect to flop this cartridge. While the only bullets I see in shops around here are 170 Bergers and 150 ABLR in .277, I don't know too many folks ready to burn powder and primers they can't replace on a new cartridge that replicates what they already have. Now throw in the fact that it took 60 years for North America to discover the 6.5, 40 more years to get over the fact that our imperial enemy shot it at us all across the pacific, I'd say by 2050 we might be ready to look into a 6.8 something. Throw in the fact that most folks have discovered they can't find a place to shoot more than 300 yards anyway and their 6.5 Creed is perfect for that. Maybe if they had beat the 6.5PRC to release they may have had a shot with this. Day late and a dollar short, just put it over there with the WSSMs.

 

[PRCLITE]

The timing is just about perfect to flop this cartridge. While the only bullets I see in shops around here are 170 Bergers and 150 ABLR in .277, I don't know too many folks ready to burn powder and primers they can't replace on a new cartridge that replicates what they already have. Now throw in the fact that it took 60 years for North America to discover the 6.5, 40 more years to get over the fact that our imperial enemy shot it at us all across the pacific, I'd say by 2050 we might be ready to look into a 6.8 something. Throw in the fact that most folks have discovered they can't find a place to shoot more than 300 yards anyway and their 6.5 Creed is perfect for that. Maybe if they had beat the 6.5PRC to release they may have had a shot with this. Day late and a dollar short, just put it over there with the WSSMs.

I completely agree! I'm actually looking into this cartridge for a friend that is hoping to come from the 7mm mag onto the 6.8 western. I keep trying to explain but he's not listening so I'm trying to prove it with ballistics. This new round in my opinion is no better than the 270wsm or 6.5PRC. In fact I'd argue that the 6.5PRC is a better all around cartridge given the ballistics should be better at longer ranges and the recoil is substantially lower giving aid to more relaxed shooting.

 

[Korhil78]

The 270 WSM is almost the same as the 6.8 Western except that they moved the shoulder back .08". They say that this allowed them to use the larger for caliber bullets and not have the longer bullets protrude into the case too far. .08" will help but it will only help people who don't reload. This cartridge was clearly made for the person who only uses factory ammunition which is most of the country. Stop looking at it in a reloaders mindset and start looking at it in a non-reloaders mindset and it will make more sense. It finally gives a non-reloader an ability to use a larger for caliber round and the rifles will have the appropriate twist. I think it might do ok but not sure.

 

[Quintus]

The 270 WSM is almost the same as the 6.8 Western except that they moved the shoulder back .08". They say that this allowed them to use the larger for caliber bullets and not have the longer bullets protrude into the case too far. .08" will help but it will only help people who don't reload. This cartridge was clearly made for the person who only uses factory ammunition which is most of the country. Stop looking at it in a reloaders mindset and start looking at it in a non-reloaders mindset and it will make more sense. It finally gives a non-reloader an ability to use a larger for caliber round and the rifles will have the appropriate twist. I think it might do ok but not sure.

The trouble with this is the folks that only shoot factory, and care about a super high BC, and don't own 6.5 and 7MMs and 30s me thinks might be an awfully small market share. Don't get me wrong, I am happy to see fast twist 270 that doesn't burn 95 grains of powder, I just think the VP of marketing overseeing this project may be selling t-shirts at the fair next year.

 

[PRCLITE]

I personally haven't reloaded in years due to having kids and finding the time. I was a huge fan of the 308, 270, 300WM and I reloaded for all three. I had a lot of luck with all three but then the 6.5CM came out. I mainly used my 308 for hunting and the Creedmoor quickly replaced that role and then bled into my long range life. I felt the Creedmoor was a great round that I could use efficiently in target as well as hunting without having to reload so that was my go to for years until 2018 when the PRC came out which promised that extra distance on game. I know, most people don't eat the 6.5 apple but I did and I haven't looked back once. I'm able to get very consistent results on game and targets which I've verified at different yardages and I'm very impressed with the accuracy and consistency. I've taken medium sized game out past 800 with zero issues. I plan to utilize this cartridge for elk next year to see where it stands. I've verified multiple hits on target from 100 yards out to 1673 yards with factory ammo and I really can't see why I would need to reload again. I use the Sig 2400 BDS range finder to get my distance and firing solution, dial my minutes on my NF ATACR 4-16x50 and hold off for windage. I can say I haven't been let down once. I consistently get hits on target over and over again with this system and it works for me. The 6.8 western to me answers a few prayers to some by getting that extra bullet weight and higher BC for the 270 crowd but I really think the efficiency and trajectory will fall short of the 6.5PRC. According to my the charts I have in Ballistics AE, as well as my range finder with the Applied Ballistics Software built in and all verified hits on target, I'm pushing a 143ELD-X at 3180FPS which still has over 1000ft/lbs at 1000 yards. I'm very comfortable with that shot on medium sized game and I don't think the 6.8 western will top it. I cannot for the life of me understand how my PRC is pushing the pill that fast but no matter how many times I verify at different distances, I'm on target consistently. I have never actually run it through my chronograph but in my opinion the charts and verified yardages are more accurate anyway.