Sometimes you learn more from mistakes

[A A Ron]

It's a 26" 1:8 Bartlein.

 

[whirlwindjml]

In Old Days people jam them into the lands and work the load up. Daryl Holland from the American gunsmithing institute touted this method in his long-range video 20+ years ago. Nowadays it seems like less people do it that way but if it's working for you for what you're doing I would just keep going. I would be cautious as the temperatures rise though to see if the pressure spikes with the heat with your particular load.

Thousand rounds down the pipe I'd say it should be pretty loose in the throat.

 

[338 dude]

I used to load touching the lands. Better accuracy being the motive. I once had a primer failure on a very large muley buck that resulted in a stuck bullet. By the time I figured out what was going on and took my son's rifle from him, the buck was gone. I too could eject a loaded round without issue. The force of the primer strike stuck the bullet. Never again will I load a hunting rifle to touch the lands.

Do you think .010 .020 or .030 jump you would've had any different result?

 

[C-130 Dude]

I had been trying to work up a good long range load in .260 Remington with Barnes 145 match burners and Reloader 23. I never found what I wanted. 2 moa garbage is all I could muster. Very disappointed.

I changed bullets and powder. 140 ELD match and H4350. I loaded my first batch for powder testing at mag length. I never considered checking to see how close to the lands I was, because I never had a bullet hit the lands at mag length. When I chambered the first round I felt a slight resistance, but nothing alarming. I started shooting. 24 of 26 test loads went into .5 moa or less. The two that were out I suspect were contributed by mirage from the suppressor. When I shot those again they went back in the group. Half way through I ejected a loaded round. I saw marks on the bullet. I discovered I was into the lands. Now what?

I have the best and most constent results I have ever obtained with that rifle. Be ultra conservative and seat deeper or go with it and carry a ramrod incase I stick a bullet? FYI over the courses of the powder test I never hit pressure.

Not real sure I would reload more of the same. I would measure the chamber and adjust your seated depth to as close as possible. Watch your powder fill! You gun seems to like it close. Jamming the bullet comes with more problems than I care to tempt. Be careful!

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Do you think .010 .020 or .030 jump you would've had any different result?

I use twenty thou as my longest oal now. Hard to get in trouble there.

 

[A A Ron]

Lots good dialogue. I appreciate the input. This has turned into a pretty fun experiment for me so far. I have a pressure safe hard jam load that shoots sub half moa. It bucks modern conventional wisdom, yet appears to be a practice that has worked. I've shot over 100 so far, which should satisfy any statistical anomalies with low sample sizes. Again I am not advocating anyone try it. You do you at your own risk.

I'm not done yet. Just to see if it is the bullet, jam, or seating depth I loaded a few conventional seating depths at .004 off, .010, off, and .020 off. The seating depth was the only change. I also went back to the Barnes 145. I loaded some with .010 jam. The Barnes has a different profile so I'm curious if it will improve from the conventional seating.

Hopefully if weather and time permit I will test this weekend.

 

[A A Ron]

I tested the seating depths .004, .010. and .020. (+ or - .001) There is no statistically valid difference in group sizes at any seating depth with the 140 ELDM in my rifle with 42.2 gr of H4350. There all sub moa. The good news is I don't need to run this bullet jammed. I'm pretty happy this bullet is so easy in this rifle with that load density.

The Barns 145 however is different. Jammed .010 it shot sub half moa. Traditional seating depths all the way out it shot bad. The Barnes bullet and load need something that jam gives it.

 

[DoneNOut]

24yrs of forums telling me I'd blow my face off if the bullet was jammed!

 

[A A Ron]

Here are the groups.

 

[BrentM]

I tested the seating depths .004, .010. and .020. (+ or - .001) There is no statistically valid difference in group sizes at any seating depth with the 140 ELDM in my rifle with 42.2 gr of H4350. There all sub moa. The good news is I don't need to run this bullet jammed. I'm pretty happy this bullet is so easy in this rifle with that load density.

The Barns 145 however is different. Jammed .010 it shot sub half moa. Traditional seating depths all the way out it shot bad. The Barnes bullet and load need something that jam gives it.

I'm sure I missed it but what depths did you test with the barnes? With the ELD you are showing a .016 wide test. I assume that was just for giggles and not a serious test to look at the range of seating depth the combo can tolerate. Over the years I have learned to give up on the old school thought process around seating close to the lands etc and IF NEEDED will do do a full test. Oddly I have seen .100-.150 be a good depth area for some combo's. In the end I could care less about the seating depth as long as it works and I don't fret about it. Unless I am crushing powder and creating pressure spikes I call it good.

 

[Beluebow]

My 223Ai has never seen anything but a hard jam with 75gr Amax's and a stout load of Varget..... 1000 rounds in it still hammers and extracts loaded rounds. It has been hard on yotes and steel out to 1k.Haven't stuck a bullet yet....Lucky??....more than likely yes.

If it shoots and you're comfortable with it continue on.

 

[Hoss50]

I would try seating a little deeper and see if it shoots still if this is a hunting gun. About 6 years ago a friend was elk hunting with us. He had a new Ruger American in 270 win. He was shooting HSM ammo with Berget bullets. He didn't know it, but that ammo would jam the rifling. He ejected a loaded round and it pulled the bullet and spilled the powder in the action. He cleaned it out as best he could. A day or 2 later he had the opportunity to shoot a cow elk at about 200 yards and didn't do it. We were razzing him for not pulling the trigger, but he swore he did. Turned out some of the spilled powder was in the trigger and wouldn't let it fire. So he missed a chance at his first elk because of jammed ammo. He didn't know it before the hunt though otherwise I could have set it back for him or had him change ammo.

 

[BrentM]

My 223Ai has never seen anything but a hard jam with 75gr Amax's and a stout load of Varget..... 1000 rounds in it still hammers and extracts loaded rounds. It has been hard on yotes and steel out to 1k.Haven't stuck a bullet yet....Lucky??....more than likely yes.

If it shoots and you're comfortable with it continue on.

Could be luck or could be the set up works without issue for a number of reasons. IF you ever do have an issue in the field, like many of us, I'll bet it'll be the last time you do it. Very few bullets require a jam to shoot well, especially modern hybrids designed to be less picky.

 

[Beluebow]

Could be luck or could be the set up works without issue for a number of reasons. IF you ever do have an issue in the field, like many of us, I'll bet it'll be the last time you do it. Very few bullets require a jam to shoot well, especially modern hybrids designed to be less picky.

This particular rifle is a yote getter and it doesn't get far from home. Pretty much a non issue for me.

That said weird stuff happens at the most inopportune times. Having the ability to correct those hiccups on the fly is invaluable.

It doesn't take a bullet in the lands to make one pull and dump powder....an unburnt kernel of powder or a piece of foreign debris can do the same.