"soft bedding" for forend pressure?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by ackleyguy, Apr 5, 2004.

  1. ackleyguy

    ackleyguy Well-Known Member

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    I heard of this before but, I am not sure what they use? Some type of silcone I think..Black?? I have a 700 Lss in .300 Ultra that is just giving me fits and I would like to try this... I think?? Any body know how stable this stuff is??? Kinda think it would have to have some variance in denisty between temp range of say 15.0 to maybe 115.0...Any body try this??I have lready floated the bbl, bedded the recoil lug and tang...then full length bedded the action, left the bbl floating..Then a pressure point above the front stud... some promise but not what I want...Damn thing shot under .75 @ 3800 with a 125 b-tip....got a muzzle brake screwed on...and now the harmonics are screwed up unless some thing else went wrong???? Will not do better than 1.5 with the above mentioned bullet no matter where i seat the thing and at vel. between 3600, 3800F/sec ....Tried a 180 partition.... 1.5" at 100........ well look on the bright side right??? That barrel will make a neat lookin tomato stake with the muzzle brake!! HELP! [​IMG]
     
  2. chris matthews

    chris matthews Well-Known Member

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    Fore-end pressure isn't really a good option as it can and will change POI from shot to shot. The amount of pressure changes depending on how you rest the rifle, etc.
    Have you taken the brake off and then shot it? Did you get the same results as before the brake was mounted?
    I would check everything else also. Make sure everything is tight- base, rings, action screws....
    If still no luck try a different scope, maybe that one kicked the bucket.
    Stick with the 125gr load, don't throw too many variables in at one time. But try to eliminate on variable at a time to pin point your problem.
     
  3. NotEnoughTriggerTime

    NotEnoughTriggerTime Active Member

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    Have you checked the crown?

    Possibly a nick from installing the brake causing the spread?

    In the snipershide home page index there is a "black thoughs" or "Black rifles" section that covers the soft bedding you're referring to.
     
  4. jb1000br

    jb1000br Well-Known Member

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    Check with greg langelius on www.snipershide.com -- he has played extensively with that [​IMG]

    JB
     
  5. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

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    Take a breath, try the Nosler Accubond, the 200gr shoots flat amazing in mine. The BT's shot like crap.. 1.5 MOA I guess. The ballistic Silver Tip shoots way better than the BT in mine. Accubond an the A-Max do the best in mine, but the accubond is tops.

    Forget the soft bedding, I'm with Chris on this. I'd float it with .040" clearance all around back to the recoil lug so no touching is even remotely possible, even with a bipod being used.

    My Accubond load is 90gr Retumbo at 3.660" OAL and about 3015 fps, and that's about .180" off the lands too, but it shoots good!

    Unscrew the brake and see if it still shoots the same as it had been, first thing I'd check out.

    Wrap tape round and round the barrel near the muzzle to alter harmonics, retest, wrap more, retest etc and see if this changes anything.

    Check one varable at a time methodically.
     
  6. ackleyguy

    ackleyguy Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all guys......I cannot unscrew this brake!! think the guy used loctite and there is no way to do it....sooooooo ...ok the bbl is floated all the way to the lug...rest of the action is beded.....got some 180 Accubonds and some Retumbo,and AA8700....goin to the range in the morn.....we shall see what we see! Thanks again guys I will keeep u posted
     
  7. QuietHunter

    QuietHunter Well-Known Member

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    Cannot unscrew the brake??? How do you clean it and clean the crown? All the brakes I have can be removed and need to be removed for good cleaning. The crown could be messed up either by the brake installation or for other reasons.
     
  8. chris matthews

    chris matthews Well-Known Member

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    AckleyGuy & QH,
    Alot of smith's including myself put brakes on with a little bit of lock tight. Several brakes like OPS Inc or Badger "time" up with the barrel shoulder and threads and are not meant to be screwed on and off. If you do the threads will stretch and the brakes can "over" time.
    I am not saying your cleaning method is wrong, but I have shot, cleaned, and built and rebuilt hundreds of braked rifles that were cleaned with the brake loctited permanently in place with no lose of accuracy.
    Back to the problem, if you have a small torch you can lightly heat the brake to soften the loctite to remove the brake.
    PS If brakes are properly installed they do not mess up barrel harmonics, change POI a little but they should not change accuracy.
     
  9. ackleyguy

    ackleyguy Well-Known Member

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    OK guys here is what happened today the 180 Accubonds and Retumbo.... stay at 2 -2.5 @ 100. the same bullet and 8700....a bit better but not much...OK, back home to pull my hair out...then....... clean the livin hell out of the barrel...shooters choice...JB...Sweets.....Ok now I was not shooting moly in this gun but figured I am going to try it (alot of my .308 bullets a already coated)....Load some 190 Sierra MK,s..over a few diff charges of Retumbo and.... yep looks like there is a .5 inch for 3 @ 100.... well time has taught me not to get to exicted over 1 of anything(well most things [​IMG] ) back home...reload 5 more and 97.5 grs Retumbo fed 215 Mag match, 190 Sierra, and .62 for 5 @ 100 with low shot to shot devaition < 12 F/sec) and a avg muzzle velocity of 3273 @ 15 ft. Now I can rest a bit better better...And the wife has begun to speak to me again ( is this a good thing? [​IMG] ) And the dog even has come back into my reloading room...for awhile there I think she thought I renamed her too.... well you can imagine the words she heard about my gun, the folks at Remington Etc., etc [​IMG] . Looks like I have something now...hmmm what the hell are those?? 185 Berger VLD's on my bench...Looks like we have to go back to the range again tommorrow......Thanks agin guys for all you input and help
     
  10. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    Chris

    Go to disagree that a brake will not effect harmonics.

    How can a brake not effect harmonics? Defies the laws of physics for it not to. You are changing both length and weight of the barrel, two critical items of barrel harmonics.

    The original idea for the Boss system came when the factory discovered removing as much as 1/8-1/4 of an inch off a barrel took it from a non shooter to a shooter by simply changing the barrel harmonics.

    Anytime you go hanging a 1-2 oz piece of metal on the end of the barrel it will effect harmonics.

    I have shot ladders with my light gun with brake on and off and I can tell you there is a marked difference in the group clusters. I proved it repeatedly testing with and without brakes at longer distances also. I tuned it for the brake on and only shot it in one match without the brake and after I had worked up a load for without the brake.

    That is why this time I rebarrelled the gun the gun without a brake.

    BH
     
  11. 257speed

    257speed Well-Known Member

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    I am agreeing with Bounty Hunter. There is no way a muzzle brake doesn't change the harmonics. The proof is that very few rifles shoot to the same point of impact with or without the brake. Some might be less than others, but most will move. As for the other issue,anyone who has had a brake installed and the crown came back messed up needs to find a new smith that knows how to instal them right.
     
  12. chris matthews

    chris matthews Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I guess I wasn't very clear in my last post.
    I agree that they do change harmonics in the fact that it can and most likely does change POI from brake on or brake off.
    I do not believe that they affect accuracy. I have built to many rifles for competition shooters that shoot with brakes in tactical matches and without in F class and have had zero reports of the rifle changing in accuracy (group size) with or without the brake.
    My point was a brake will not affect accuracy if properly installed. Ackley Guy definietly has a problem somewhere. It might be with the brake, crown, bases, rings, scope, or action screws. All of these should be checked before you start throwing more variables in the picture by changing loads.
     
  13. Pete Lincoln

    Pete Lincoln Well-Known Member

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    brakes affecting accuracy? well yes an no.. physicaly or even mechanicaly a well in stalled brake should not affect rifle accuray ie. group size one way or the other. If the brake is incorporated into a barrel weight system aka Boss then yes you will change the harmonics of the barrel when you alter the position of the weight.
    The biggest effect a break can have on accuracy is that there is less felt recoil which may make the shooter able to shoot a hard recoiling rifle more accurately, altenatively due to increased muzzle blast the shooter may shoot a lighter recoiling rifle not as well with a brake fitted, we all have our individual recoil and noise sensetivity levels.
    Now if we use a moderator then we have the best of both worlds, recoil and sound are reduced.
    I once had a rifle fitted with a boss system, it was the biggest pain in the butt i ever saw, to expect a barrel weight make a cheap barrel shoot consistently is asking too much, far better to start with a trued reciever, properly bedded in to a quality stock and a good quality barrel be fitted. then you know you have an accurate starting point, there after if you put a brake on it or not it shouldn't get any less or more accurate. and besides, a custome barrel is fareasier to clean than a cheapo factory thing..
    Pete
     
  14. chris matthews

    chris matthews Well-Known Member

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    thanks Pete for typing out the rest of my thoughts. I limit my posts to save wear and tear of hunt and peck typing on my trigger finger! [​IMG]