Slow fire or fast fire groups?

Discussion in 'The Basics, Starting Out' started by arthurj, May 24, 2005.

  1. arthurj

    arthurj Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    460
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2005
    Hey guys I have a question. My rifle shoots excellent groups when I time it 90-120 secs between each shot and when I try and shoot a fast fire group it opens up significantly. Just wondering what this means about the rifle. Is my assumption right that most prefer to pick a favorable condition and shoot a fast string, rather than picking each condition for each shot? I know this is long range HUNTING not long range COMPETITION but I was just wondering what everyones methods of shooting groups were and what this means about my rifle.
     
  2. 7Rumloader

    7Rumloader Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    540
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2005
    arthurj I normally under good conditions shoot my string at a pace of about 20 to 30 seconds between shots which is about how long it takes to get the spent round out do a quick inspection of the case ( check primer for obvious pressure signs ) chamber another round take aim and let her rip. If it's gusty winds I pick a wind condition for my first shot and wont fire any other rounds until that condition is in the ballpark again. I have never waited 90 to 120 seconds between shots except for windy days waiting for the right condition.
    Thats my normal routine.
    Is your barrel heavy or sporter weight? I don't know what it means about your rifle unless it's a light barrel then maybe it could be heat building up in the little tube. I'm no expert so maybe Kirby or Chris Matthews or one of the other great smiths here will have a better explanation for you.
     
  3. arthurj

    arthurj Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    460
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2005
    I am shooting a remington vsf 308 with a bull barrel. I recently skim bedded the rifle. It was my first skim bedding job but I feel I did pretty a pretty good job, or at least I don't think I screwed it up. The action screws seem to be very solid when I tighten them and when I remove the action I can see evidence of nearly 100% contact in the areas bedded. My groups even shrank considerably. It is probably something mental that gets me, maybe I don't give each shot full concentration in a faster string.
     
  4. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

    Messages:
    6,848
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    Arthurj,

    How quickly are you shooting when you do shoot your fast groups?

    I would say that if you have a stress that is revealing itself in your barrel you would probably see more of an effect waiting over the 90 to 120 seconds between shots especially with the barrel you are using.

    When you fast shoot, again it depends on the string you are shooting. In comp I assume you are either shooting 5 or 10 shot strings unless your shooting steel.

    The 308 really does not heat up a barrel that much. With a heavier contoured barrel , it takes longer for the bore heat to heat the entire mass of the barrel and thus showing the effects of either a stress or contact with the barrel from heat expansion.

    The longer you wait the more the barrel mass is heated to a point. If you wait long enough it begins to cool down of course.

    I would say you may be rushing your shots a bit trying to get all the bullets in the air under the same conditions. Whatever it is, the rifle or you, it seems you get the best groups pacing your shots.

    May be a good idea to start to practice shooting groups with 80 to 110 seconds between shots. If groups stay the same then cut that to 70 to 100 seconds and so on and so on until you get used to shooting with less set up time.

    I suspect this is what may be happening, you are concentrating on getting the shot off quicker then your used to and as a result your not focusing on your target picture or conditions like you would with more time to shoot.

    I can not tell you how conventional BR shooters shoot but I can say that the top 50 BMG 1000 yard BR shooters will wait for good shooting conditions and then lay those five big bullets out as fast as they can.

    If your in the pits you better have your ducks in a row getting that target down, marked and back up as they will be wanting to shoot very quickly.

    Certainly not a flame toward you in any way but if your getting quality groups shooting slow fire I would say you just need to pactice speeding up your firing sequence while still maintaining your level of concentration that you do in slow fire.

    Good Shooting

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  5. jb1000br

    jb1000br Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,307
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2003
    As long as you can shoot CONSISTANTLY and FAST, that is your best option.

    in BR, you have pickers and runners -- see 1000 yard article at the link in my sigline.

    you are obviously feeling rushed and not staying consistent, so concentrate on consistancy and speed will come.

    JB
     
  6. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

    Messages:
    1,459
    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2001
    Poor form, jerking the trigger, not repositioning the rifle the same are all symptoms of poor rapid fire that will cause your groups to open up. How about a wobbly bench or rests?

    To go fast, SLOW DOWN.

    Focus on being fluid and like a machine, do the same thing for each and every shot the same. Practise, practise, practise.

    Since most of my LR shooting is for hunting, I want a rifle that I can get a second or third shot as fast as possible in order to anchor a poorly hit animal. Of course, we never have one of those BUUUUTTTT I just want to be sure.

    A great little widget I just bought is the Uncle Buds rifle bag. Filled with sand, this thing probably weighs 25lbs. The way it is designed, it holds the rifle quite securely.

    Should really help with field shooting and reduction of recoil. Big plus, should allow you to spot impact easier.

    I have seen these for years but never paid attention. On a whim, I bought one. Now I am really going to get one into my LR hunting routine. Like 'em.

    Jerry