Siamese Mauser to 45-70

Discussion in 'Gunsmithing' started by jbeck, May 19, 2019.


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  1. jbeck

    jbeck New Member

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    I recently had a Siamese Mauser converted to 45-70 and it is a blast to shoot, but it is pretty much a single shot rifle. when loading the cartridges they don't want to stay in the magazine! I suspect that the follower is the problem, but not sure how to resolve that issue. In doing a lot of searching in google I found a reference in an old guns & ammo magazine (?) about this conversion; an article by "George Nonte" . However I was not able to actually see his article as I guess it was expired or something. I think that this is a semi popular conversion so anyone out there that has found the remedy for my problem it would be much appreciated. would like to be able to load at least 3 cartridges in the magazine and not have them pop out!
     
  2. Airedale56

    Airedale56 Member

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    Can you describe what happens a bit more?
    If you load just one, will it stay down with the bolt open?
    Are you pushing each one all the way to the back of the magazine box, ensuring that the rim of the higher cartridge rides ahead of the lower one, staggered?
     
  3. jbeck

    jbeck New Member

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    Yes, 1 cartridge will stay down with bolt open. And also a yes on pushing the cartridges all the way back of the box. If I push 2 shells down and hold them down while closing the bolt and then open the bolt rather fast, those 2 shells will pop up. I can cycle 1 round but not 2. hope this explains better....
     
  4. shortgrass

    shortgrass Well-Known Member

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    Do you know for sure that the follower that you have is for a Siamese Mauser?
     
  5. sable tireur

    sable tireur Well-Known Member

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    Here I thought that all of this stupidity had finally fallen by the wayside and no more Siamese Mausers would be desecrated by this idiotic conversion. Then you tell us that you just had one made. :mad:

    Rimmed cartridges require a magazine designed with a slant and a follower which allows the cartridge to roll up under the rails and sit high enough for the bottom of the bolt to pick it up and move it into the feed ramp. Your rails are not fitted to hold the 2nd and 3rd cartridge down while letting the first peek up allowing it to be picked up by the bolt. Your description tells us that whoever did your conversion really had no idea what was needed but tried to fake his way through it.

    Here is the magazine in which Mr Nonte's article appeared. You can get a modern copy on CD/DVD to see if it helps you.

    https://www.wolfeoutdoorsports.com/rifle-single-issue-12-november-1970/

    Mr. Nonte was a well respected retired Marine, who achieved fame through his writing, both books and magazine articles.
     
  6. shortgrass

    shortgrass Well-Known Member

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    Original followers for the Siamese Mausers are very few and far between. If yours has a follower for a 8mm or 7mm Mauser '98, it will , more than likely, work as you describe. Try a follower for a P14 "Enfield", as it was designed for the .303 British, which is a rimmed cartridge.
     
  7. jbeck

    jbeck New Member

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    Well Mr. "sable tireur", you may be correct that it was an idiotic adventure to do this conversion. I have 2 Siamese Mausers so sacrificed one after being talked into this conversion. But, I like it except for the feed dilemma. I will find a P14 follower and see if that works.
     
  8. sable tireur

    sable tireur Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is. The Siamese Mauser action was and is still one of the best of the Mauser designs. While I mean no personal affront to you, in general, the idea of forcing a mediocre cartridge into such an action in a vain attempt to simulate the .458 Win. Mag is essentially a waste of a very good action and money. Those that aren't familiar with that value and have the money to create the project often commit such mistakes. We see this throughout the firearms industry when some actions are plentiful and cheap, the amount of experimentation rises until that excess amount is depleted. The late 40s, 50s and the 60s were known for this. The M98, being probably the most produced action in the world, has been cut up, ground down, welded together and experimented with more than any other action. And now the numbers have been reduced to point where it's getting hard to find decent ones. No, I don't collect at all so that's not the point.

    I hope you get your project up and running correctly as the alternative would be very disappointing.
     
  9. jbeck

    jbeck New Member

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    Point well taken. I sincerely appreciate your advice, info and input.
     
  10. Michael Souther

    Michael Souther Well-Known Member

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    I bought a,Siamese mauser many years ago very rough condition of the stock. the comments about ruining are unfounded, 98 mausers as well as the Siamese Mauser. Different time different conditions. I have several 98 Mausers converted for hunting and have seen many rescued from the junk heap. My 98 converted to 338 win mag is my standard hunting rifle. My Siamese Mauser 45 70 with a Federal barrel is super accurate, Walnut stock and open sights. I have several Turkish Mausers still as is and were not converted. Way back when, a 98 mauser converted for sporting purposes was a great options for a hunting rifle and reasonably priced when most people could not spend thousands on a factory rifle. Now the loading problem. Check the fit of the magazine at the top where it fits up to the receiver. If there is a gap there, could be the problem. when restocking the angled magazine is a bit of a pain to get it fit correctly. I have one more Siamese action to get a barrel and stock on. Enjoy your rifle.
     
  11. Siggy32

    Siggy32 Member

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    When I was a Senior in High School (1975) I had a very good shop teacher. I was allowed to build a Siamese Mauser into a 45-70. There were 4 rifles built in shop class that year. We test fired them out the back of the shop across the football field. It was a small rural town school. I always had trouble with feeding shells, they would pop up as you describe. So when I got old I went back to the rifle & determined it was not centering the cartridge. I taped a pop sickle stick along the side of the follower which centered it & all worked. So I welded a piece of metal along the side & dressed it up, this keeps the follower centered & keeps the round under the feed ramp. It feeds correctly with no problems now. I also polished the feed ramp on the magazine box so the round feeds better. Attached are photos of the fix.
     

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  12. nicholasjohn

    nicholasjohn Well-Known Member

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    Siggy,

    I was also a senior in high school in 1975, and I would have given anything to go to a school where they let you build rifles in shop class. People today would have a stroke over the very idea. No, I'm not going to go political on you. I just wanted to say that I think it's great that you had this opportunity as a youngster, and learned something of value from it. Thanks for passing along what you've learned.


    Nick
     
  13. sable tireur

    sable tireur Well-Known Member

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    Very limited experience and extremely limited knowledge often lead to making statements such as this. Maybe when you gain 30-40 years of hands on engineering design and custom rifle building experience you can come back to fill us in on how it all worked out for you. Yes you are entitled to an opinion. But, it should be a well informed and knowledgeable opinion and not something based on limited experience.
     
  14. Siggy32

    Siggy32 Member

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    Nick, we all had rifles & shotguns in the window of the truck, knives in our pockets. We didn't even have to lock up the tools in shop class, or locks on our book lockers, it was a great time. I can say it was good old days, never would I have ever believed we would end up where we are today.

    There was another 45-70, a 243. & the shop teacher built a .308. It was a great learning experience, we used the metal lathe, had to build the barrel vise, action wrench, learn how to headspace. Wood tools to inlet the stock, acraglass the barreled action into the stock, sand & finish stock. Drill & tap for scope mounts, great all-around learning project. Weaver K-4 scope as I remember my shop bill was $115.00. The shop teacher had the blueing vat & did the blueing.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
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