Shrink group size...some advice or help.

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by shooters, Oct 17, 2019.


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  1. Mram10us

    Mram10us Well-Known Member LRH Team Member

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    Bipod on concrete bench is an issue. If you have an issue today try using front rest and heavy rear bag for the development. It will help a lot. Look forward to pics.

    Maybe I missed it, but how many rounds down the barrel? Good idea to shoot about 50 rounds to smooth out the tool marks in the Barrel then do load development
     
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  2. shooters

    shooters Well-Known Member

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    Ok. I’m out. I’m done.
    It’s hard to come on a forum and try saying that it’s not the shooter because I would imagine countless times individuals come on here with similar issues when it is in fact the individual. Sometime one sounds a little arrogant or cocky, and that is not my intention....but I’m a long time shooter. I know my ability. I have several half inch guns, and when I’m having a bad day, they shoot 3/4”.

    We are talking HUGE sporadic groups with severe stringing here. Consistent one time, and all over the next. This is not a shooter issue. These are not 600 yard groups. This is at 100. Something is severally wrong here.

    Here’s what I just got done shooting going off my )previously posted 94g Reloader 33 3/4” group at .030 off lands. )

    Horrible!
    These pics are of 93g Reloader 33 and 92g.


    Followed by 2 separate groups with same bullet, seating, primer BUT using 89g Retumbo and 92g Retumbo. You can see the gun is back to the huge vertical string. At 89g, it shot the first hole, second hole was 1.5” higher, 3rd was 3” higher, and 4th was off the paper.
    At 92g Retumbo, after first hole, second hole was 4” higher, and 3rd was off paper way high. Just like the 208 ELDM did.
    There is something seriously not right here. I’ve never had an issue with any nightforce scope, but I can’t help but think it’s a possibility.

    Just for the hell of it, I took my other 300 ultra out. The tight group is of it with 200g ELDX, 96g of 33, 215M Primer, Norma brass and ATACR. I really wanted to swap the scopes but ran out of time. It may be tomorrow’s project.

    I appreciate all the help....but usually when I can’t get a load to shoot, it’s around that 2” and under. This is extreme and something not right.
     

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  3. shooters

    shooters Well-Known Member

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    It has I believe 68 now. And yes Bipod is on Concert. I’ll try the cardboard tomorrow, but if that doesn’t resolve it, I’ll try swapping ATAC’s. I really was trying to avoid swapping but that’s all that’s left I believe.
     
  4. entoptics

    entoptics Well-Known Member

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    It's definitely a rifle/scope problem. Assuming you're using a similar bipod setup, the half inch group from the other rifle proves that, so I wouldn't waste any more bullets with a cardboard/cutting board test.

    I'd definitely swap the scopes. It's a hassle, but almost certainly the most reliable way to troubleshoot.

    Don't get too discouraged yet. Having another rifle that will bughole will really help eliminate variables. Heck, you've already proven to me it's not the shooter/bipod!

    Will the new reloads work in the other rifle? Might not hurt to just get a baseline group or two from it.
     
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  5. Mram10us

    Mram10us Well-Known Member LRH Team Member

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    Do you have someone that can give a second set of eyes on your base, rings, action screws and crown?
    Next time try a good front rest and rear bag. I’m done saying that :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
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  6. shooters

    shooters Well-Known Member

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    I’ll swap scopes and see what happens tomorrow. I’ll have the smith reinstall rings and base IF we prove it a not the scope Using another NF tomorrow
     
  7. Orange Dust

    Orange Dust Well-Known Member

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    You have me thinking now something is in a bind somewhere. First guess between scope and rifle. Ill bet its the scope or mounts, and you are on the right track. Know how frustrating it is, and none of us can really offer more than moral support. Ill bet you figure it out tomorrow.
     
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  8. Canhunter35

    Canhunter35 Well-Known Member

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    You better contact proof. You’re barrel is walking by the looks of it
     
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  9. Mram10us

    Mram10us Well-Known Member LRH Team Member

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    Fun story. Two weeks ago I took a friend of a friend out to shoot a 300 ultra mag of mine that I was going to sell him. At 500 yards he shot off a bipod with a good rear rest and shot a four shot 4 inch group at 500 yards. He decided he wanted to try it at 200 yards the way he “hunted”. So he used the bipod on the concrete bench and used no rear bag just holding the butt against his shoulder with his hand. Shot a 6 inch group straight up and down with three shots. He blamed the gun because he had never shot a bipod off the concrete bench.
     
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  10. shooters

    shooters Well-Known Member

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    Haha. Ok, I swear I’m taking your advice. I have several different loads I’m taking out tomorrow (215 Bergers, 200 ELDX) and doing exactly what you said. No bipod. Solid front and rear bags. No studs on stock. I’ll post up all 4 groups for you tomorrow. Thanks again.
     
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  11. Mram10us

    Mram10us Well-Known Member LRH Team Member

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    Not trying to be annoying, I just hate to see you switching scopes and trying a bunch of stuff when it might be the setup. I didn’t invent it, just learned by chasing my tail enough :)
    That really was a true story. Not just bs :)
     
  12. Shane Lindsey

    Shane Lindsey Well-Known Member

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    Don’t know if this has been brought up but have you checked parallax?

    I get complacent when pulling it out of the bag and not checking when only shooting at 100 yards.
     
  13. shooters

    shooters Well-Known Member

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    This may be difficult to keep track of.

    Well.....
    I hate changing more than one variable at a time, but today I went out and shot and changed two things at once. I kind of wish I wouldn’t have.
    So, i’ve heard two things over and over on here. One being that I was on the very low end with my Reloader 33 charge. The other being the Bipod on the concert bench. So, I bumped up the charge considerably and shot off a front and rear bag.
    At first....things looked promising! Not great, but there was hope.

    The first picture is of what was just shot with my other 300 Ultra. Good group. Identical gun.

    So I took this load (97g of 33) and put it in my Ultra that will not shoot, which is picture #2 and is outlined in blue. That’s a 4 shot group. First two in same hole. Next two up high. (Errr). Was excited with the first two, then I get the two high ones. ??

    So, I bumped up the load to 98g and shot another 4 shot group. Picture #2 again and outlined in Yellow is of 98g of 33. That’s a 4 shot group. 3 in same hole, 1 flyer. Again, weird flyer...but things are looking better.

    So to verify the 98g, I shot one more 4 shot group which is outlined in Green in picture #3. 3 touching and agin, 1 flyer. Still not great.

    So it seems the 98 of Reloader 33 is the best, but I always get a flyer.

    So now I’m thinking, ok, it IS IN FACT the bipod.

    I load up some 200 grain ELDX’s and shoot. Circled in grey in picture #4. Not a good group, but I’ve eliminated the vertical stringing completely!!

    I now load up some 215 Bergers again, keeping everything the same as the last 3 groups with Bergers except I try IMR 7828 SSC. #3 Picture circled in baby blue. The vertical stringing is back.

    So I’m beyond lost. Will the gun only shoot the 215 Bergers (ok at best) and not any other load on the planet.....!!
    To say I’m a little frustrated would be an understatement. So in a nutshell, if I don’t use that one particular load, almost everything I shoot will vertically string. Never seen this before. Ever.
     

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    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  14. Mram10us

    Mram10us Well-Known Member LRH Team Member

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    AE379ABE-4BB1-4DB3-AAF9-6F75285C49DC.jpeg Personally, I would clean the barrel very well to remove all copper then all carbon. Load up 10 of the 98g. Shoot 4 to foul and get warmed up. Then shoot two, let cool, two more, etc. I had a 7-300wm with a CA barrel that would same hole the first two shots at 200yds, then throw the third. Every frickin time! I started shooting two then switching rifles and it was fine. Rebedded it making sure the barrel was floated and still threw #3.

    I put white on the target over other shots not related.
     
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