Shorter barreled rifles and un-burnt powder

[Brozonelayer]

I absolutely appreciate the input on the action portion of the decision (and I'm serious, it is helpful) but let's assume I have the action in hand.

What is your input on if I'm missing anything here if I went with a 16" .260 over the 16" 6.5 PRC? It appears I would loose about 170fps with a bullet around 140gr. That's not a small amount but is the trade-off of more efficient powder burn worth it? What else am I giving up?

Any other thoughts to share?

 

[sable tireur]

Simply put, you steered the OP away from the option of a Remage action and implied that if he bought an aftermarket action job done by a "gunsmith" that he would, "Get what you need from the start."

Do yourself a favor and skip this idea. Either buy an accurized action from another source or buy an action and have it accurized (the full boat) by a gunsmith. This will cost you few dollars more but you'll get what you need right from the start.

Your quote first from your post just above this.

My very first post is quoted second directly from my post.

See bolded statement: My statement is about the action accurizing which is exactly what I wrote. I said no such thing about Remage actions or steering the OP away from Remage actions.

There are two ways to get accurized actions:

1) Buy from a supplier who performs this process.
2) Buy a complete action and ship it to your gunsmith for accurizing.

This is what I stated. I said nothing about Remage anything. Why do you make this up? I wanted the OP to be aware that there are different levels of accurizing and then gave the alternatives to his source. That's all.

A simple and clearly written two sentence opinion and you want to build a Federal case against it.

 

[Ingwe]

Your quote first from your post just above this.

My very first post is quoted second directly from my post.

See bolded statement: My statement is about the action accurizing which is exactly what I wrote. I said no such thing about Remage actions or steering the OP away from Remage actions.

There are two ways to get accurized actions:

1) Buy from a supplier who performs this process.
2) Buy a complete action and ship it to your gunsmith for accurizing.

This is what I stated. I said nothing about Remage anything. Why do you make this up? I wanted the OP to be aware that there are different levels of accurizing and then gave the alternatives to his source. That's all.

A simple and clearly written two sentence opinion and you want to build a Federal case against it.

OK here we go.....UGH Jesus.

In Post#3 the OP said that his "idea was to buy a Remage from Northlands." Your reply was "Do yourself a favor and skip the idea."

I am not, as you said, "Making this up." From your statement, it sounds like you were steering him away from a Remage. In a reply, I asked you in a friendly way why you don't like, or seem to think that the Remage isn't a good idea for him. I don't own Remage, make money off it, or really care either way. Since I have had great success with them, I was simply wondering why you said what you said...THAT"S ALL.

Listen my friend, I am not looking for a fight or to banter with a guy like YOU. I responded to your reply from my post to you and I am not going to respond any further.

Have a nice couple of shots of good scotch and smoke a big fat cigar on your deck if you have one. It might do you some good.

Take Care

 

[Coldfinger]

I absolutely appreciate the input on the action portion of the decision (and I'm serious, it is helpful) but let's assume I have the action in hand.

What is your input on if I'm missing anything here if I went with a 16" .260 over the 16" 6.5 PRC? It appears I would loose about 170fps with a bullet around 140gr. That's not a small amount but is the trade-off of more efficient powder burn worth it? What else am I giving up?

Any other thoughts to share?

Don't over think it that's what I always do!!!! Will a deer or elk ever know the difference. I know I wouldn't hesitate on taking a 500 yard shot on a deer or elk with my bone stock Savage Stryker .308. If I were to go after elk I'd put a rifle scope on it for long range. It shoots ragged holes with Sierra 165 grain game king hollow points and H380 and a cheap bushnell 2-6 on it. 300 yards have been no more difficult than a rifle.

 

[Brozonelayer]

Soooo...if I went with a 16" .260 over the 16" 6.5 PRC it appears I would loose about 170fps (at140gr).
Not insignificant but is the trade-off of more efficient powder burn worth it?

What else am I giving up ?

 

[Coldfinger]

I

Soooo...if I went with a 16" .260 over the 16" 6.5 PRC it appears I would loose about 170fps (at140gr).
Not insignificant but is the trade-off of more efficient powder burn worth it?

What else am I giving up ?

I know nothing about the PRC family of cases but I thought they need a mag boltface??? Correct me if I'm wrong! A 260 uses standard bolt face which you could run 22-250 thru 358 Winchester with pre fit barrels and swap them out in 10 minutes or so if you get bored and want a change of flavor. I had a carbon six ordered for Stryker in 6 creedmoor but changed it to rifle length and RemAge.

 

[Ingwe]

Soooo...if I went with a 16" .260 over the 16" 6.5 PRC it appears I would loose about 170fps (at140gr).
Not insignificant but is the trade-off of more efficient powder burn worth it?

What else am I giving up ?

I would like to add that if you decide to go with the Remage, James at NSS will be of great help to you. He helped my pick out the components and tools that I would need to do the job myself, and also helped walk me through the process of putting it all together and doing the headspace etc. I called him a bunch of times for help and he was ALWAYS available and helpful.

I had never attempted something like this and as I said before, I have 2 Remage setups and both shoot clusters at 100 yards. One is a 204 Ruger and the other is a 7mmRM

Good luck either way!

 

[BrentM]

Soooo...if I went with a 16" .260 over the 16" 6.5 PRC it appears I would loose about 170fps (at140gr).
Not insignificant but is the trade-off of more efficient powder burn worth it?

What else am I giving up ?

Where did you get 170 by the way? I've run 260 and creeds back to back and against the 6.5-285 and prc. In 20" barrels the difference is 300-350 FPS. For example I can run. 135 at 3050 in a prc and the same 135 in a creed at 2720. Yes I can get more speed out of both but these are both pushing it as is. I ran the 26" 260 at 2800-2850. Keeping in mind these are the FPS the cartridge was designed for not some home brewed smoke the cases in 2-3 firings.
Anyway, back to the point I could be wrong about a 16 vs 16 but don't anyone yet who has tried it. I would expect a 16" prc to run 2850 with a 140. Likely need rl16, would try 26, n560, and 4831 tho.

 

[Brozonelayer]

Where did you get 170 by the way?

I just looked at:
.260 Berger match grade 140gr at 2,789
vs
6.5 PRC Hornady Precision hunter 143gr @ 2,960.
So a difference of 171 fps.

I'm sure there are differences all over the board with handloading (which I've done) but for this purpose I used factory ammo info. Maybe I was wrong in doing that.


If one was to go with a 16" 6.5 PRC to gain the additional 170-350fps what do you see as the downsides?

 

[Buck Fever]

To me, cartridge efficiency is a pretty big deal. Some chamberings are just too overbore so while they can get impressive velocity, it takes a lot of powder to get there and similar chamberings with a bigger bore can get the similar velocity with a heavier bullet with the same amount of powder.

The picture in the last page saying that Constructor had stopped developing any 6.5mm wildcats larger than a 6.5 BRX for short barrel guns kind of displays that. He said bigger cases wouldn't increase velocity more than 50 fps in a short barrel.

I believe him because I have an 18" TAC6 barrel he made that shoots 105 grain bullets faster than a 22" 224 Valkyrie shoots 90 grain bullets. It's the same parent case and the BC of a 105 grain 6mm is almost equal to a 90 grain .224 so it's ballistically superior out until around 950 yards and then the Valkyrie has slightly longer legs for target shooting.

I think the ultimate balance happens when you shorten a barrel, increase the bore and go down in weight class for bullets (it will be higher in grains but a 90 grain .224 is about as heavy as it gets, a 115 grain 6mm would be its equivalent so a 105 grain is actually a good step lower in weight class).

You just need to juggle numbers to see what kind of energy you need down range and choose an efficient way to get there.

Since I like efficiency, I go for long barrels also but I went with 284 Winchester instead of 6.5x284 and I went with 338 RUM instead of 300 RUM or 300 PRC for my two latest builds and i think they will have the ballistics to shoot steel at 1 mile+.

I would never build a 16" 6.5 PRC and if I was dropping down to a smaller case, I would choose 6.5 Creedmoor instead of .260 mostly because of its popularity and ammo availability but I think 7mm08 or even 308 might be a lot more efficient in a 16" barrel.

 

[KurtB]

I've got a 19" barreled 6.5x47, son has a 18". Watched him kill his bull last year at 400 yards with it. 140 vld doing 2670 fps. Its a maxed load in it, but shoots very well. I'd go 6.5 Creedmoor or 6.5x47 with the short barrels. Very good performers.

 

[Savage 12BVSS]

I have a 20" 260 and a 20" 7mm-08 and have loaded and used both for several years. The 6.5CM and 260 are ballistically a close match, comes down to getting factory loaded ammo or which is most popular being in the CM's corner. That said you seem to like the 6.5 caliber better than 7mm, I think the 7mm-08 performs better in a short barrel than my 260, but that's just me. Any 308 parent case ammo will be more efficient in a short barrel than overbore cartridges, but you will get more velocity bottom line from higher powder charges just less efficiently. Remember if you build a short barreled 6.5PRC (IMHO a great new cartridge) with the remage set-up you could always go to a longer barrel if you wanted to if the short barrel didn't work out.

 

[longtubeman]

Hi guys, have been shooting a 16.5. " 6.5x284 for a long time. Got some good speeds. ( 85gr at 3550) ( 100 at 3300) ( 120 at 2950) and ( 140 at 2800). Yes its very blasts, and double ear protection is a must! Love to have something short in a pack, and easy to move threw the woods with. Shoots 1/4 inch, and its a 1 inch heart barrel.

 

[6.5-300 BEE]

A DIY barrel change with any of the barrel nut systems is easy. If you can mount a scope, you can do it.

Now for the dirty little secret. I've never had any problem putting any 700 barrel on another 700 rifle . All have indexed up fine and passed headspace.