SHORT ACTIONS ARE STUPID!!

Savage 12BVSS said:
There are a lot of things posted that could qualify as stupid.....sometimes opinions are also stupid. Sometimes answering a post is stupid and I feel that way right now.

Must be running out of interesting things to talk about in these times.
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You slobbered a bib full right there
 
Mazdayasna said:
Witnessing this trend towards Short Actions when we already have a Standard Action makes absolutely no sense. Why would I deliberately limit the amount of powder room or bullet length in my Rifle. Instead I only care what the minimum case length that will reliably feed in my Standard Action. Recently I have decided to attempt a long Action WSM budget Rifle so that I can let the Bullet hang way out of the case. Short Actions just can't do that. Instead Manufacturers should alter dimensions of "Short Actions" to the length required for 6.5x55 or 7mm Mauser. We've also witnessed these intentional Castration in AR15 & AR10 Military Rifles where short OAL diminishes the capability of the Rifles. All this over a few ounces that can cost 500 Yards.
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Bet you are loads of fun at parties, mate. 👍
 
Mazdayasna said:
Witnessing this trend towards Short Actions when we already have a Standard Action makes absolutely no sense. Why would I deliberately limit the amount of powder room or bullet length in my Rifle. Instead I only care what the minimum case length that will reliably feed in my Standard Action. Recently I have decided to attempt a long Action WSM budget Rifle so that I can let the Bullet hang way out of the case. Short Actions just can't do that. Instead Manufacturers should alter dimensions of "Short Actions" to the length required for 6.5x55 or 7mm Mauser. We've also witnessed these intentional Castration in AR15 & AR10 Military Rifles where short OAL diminishes the capability of the Rifles. All this over a few ounces that can cost 500 Yards.
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I bet you're one of those guys who have used the phrase "Real men only shoot magnums"
 
Mazdayasna said:
Witnessing this trend towards Short Actions when we already have a Standard Action makes absolutely no sense. Why would I deliberately limit the amount of powder room or bullet length in my Rifle. Instead I only care what the minimum case length that will reliably feed in my Standard Action. Recently I have decided to attempt a long Action WSM budget Rifle so that I can let the Bullet hang way out of the case. Short Actions just can't do that. Instead Manufacturers should alter dimensions of "Short Actions" to the length required for 6.5x55 or 7mm Mauser. We've also witnessed these intentional Castration in AR15 & AR10 Military Rifles where short OAL diminishes the capability of the Rifles. All this over a few ounces that can cost 500 Yards.
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Short actions definitely have their place. If you're looking to build a light weight mountain rifle- using a short action is an easy way to drop weight.
I have a wife that shoots/hunts, as well as 4 kids. Short action's work well for them. Lightweight, and they don't need a magnum cartridge in it that will develop into bad habits.....
My 2 cents.
 
oh there is a long list of why they are still around.

ease of walking in and buying them. most are used for hunting and a slow and i mean slow up trend in dedicated competition and non competition target shooting over all. yea competition shooting is becoming popular but hunting rigs still out weigh target shooting and competition shooting IMHO. least that's what i'm see in my part of the woods.

me, i went with a tikka just because a bolt stop would be the difference between "long" and "short" action without have dedicated rifles for each.

not everyone cares about single hole groups at 500 yards and beyond, not everyone cares about loading every cartridge long, not everyone cares about velocity.

just like-

not everyone will choose a 270win for a 1000-1200 yard rifle, but i did

not everyone will hang a 30" barrel off it to squeeze out as much velocity as possible without having a a crane arm to carry around. but i did.

not everyone is worried about lugging around a rifle in the thick woods of western NC. i'm not, got other tools for that lol

not everyone will go against the grain when doing something, but i do.

but for the ones that do, they'll build a rifle to fit their needs and requirements.

that's what i'm doing.

short actions have their place, just like everything else does.
 
Very few people have actually documented the increase in effect of seating a bullet .050-.100 further out of case and the increase in performance. Most just spew opinion without any real merit to the argument about what exactly the benefit is. IF you have specific example of a specific cartridge then arguing a SA, MA, or LA makes a bit of sense but to say a SA is bs is just flat ignorant. I ran a 204, 6.5CM, and a 243 in a long action with 3.75 COAL capability. Complete waste of space. If you restrict a SA to nothing more than 2.80 COAL it usually has more to do with the magazine and less to do with the action throw and opening. My savage and bighorn actions can handle 3.0 without issue but the mag is limited to around 2.950. That is .070 more room for a PRC, SAUM, etc. and it works well. So not all SA set ups are the same and not all SA are restricting performance like some want to believe.
 
Rhino55 gives excellent advice. Too bad not enough of us follow it.

As my "failure to heed" his advice, consider this:

As one who once used a .378 Wathery Magnum to hunt jackrabbits, I know the value of this question: Aren't we lucky that innovation is giving us so many choices?

-- Long and mid-length actions where lots of room for bullets and powder can be created?
-- Short actions (ex. .308 Win) that give a modest trade of top power for a bit more ability to maneuver.
-- Micro actions at .223 Rem length allow for short light rifles that make hiking wood and steep hills much easier without particularly sacrificing inside 300 yard performance on the target and on game.
 
Mazdayasna said:
Witnessing this trend towards Short Actions when we already have a Standard Action makes absolutely no sense. Why would I deliberately limit the amount of powder room or bullet length in my Rifle. Instead I only care what the minimum case length that will reliably feed in my Standard Action. Recently I have decided to attempt a long Action WSM budget Rifle so that I can let the Bullet hang way out of the case. Short Actions just can't do that. Instead Manufacturers should alter dimensions of "Short Actions" to the length required for 6.5x55 or 7mm Mauser. We've also witnessed these intentional Castration in AR15 & AR10 Military Rifles where short OAL diminishes the capability of the Rifles. All this over a few ounces that can cost 500 Yards.
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Emotions aside I agree that the old school SA chambering could benefit from extended throats and more gentle angled leade so that longer bullets are accepted. Often a extension of .05 to .150 is sufficient. I've done this with 270, 300 WM, 338LM. While this will help some to allow longer bullets it does not address the the magazine length issue and makes the rifle a single shot rifle for those loads. The shorter mag friend loads are unaffected by the longer "jump" in most cases. Solids in particularly actually shoot better.

David Tubb has done some pretty interesting things with longer non standard case lengths, 33XC, 37XC and 41xc for example. I think the 6xc still actually fits.

to your point putting everything in a long action solves most issues as well. Look at desert tech and how they use long actions and mags with modifications to hold short action cases.
IMO just use a long action for everything and use modified mags if necessary and extend the throat in almost any chambering. Really not that difficult.
The same can be done in the AR world but a custom bolt and light weight BCG must be used. Trouble is I haven't found anyone to make one. Would probably require a few mods but definitely possible. Might be a business opportunity there
 
JASmith said:
Rhino55 gives excellent advice. Too bad not enough of us follow it.

As my "failure to heed" his advice, consider this:

As one who once used a .378 Wathery Magnum to hunt jackrabbits, I know the value of this question: Aren't we lucky that innovation is giving us so many choices?

-- Long and mid-length actions where lots of room for bullets and powder can be created?
-- Short actions (ex. .308 Win) that give a modest trade of top power for a bit more ability to maneuver.
-- Micro actions at .223 Rem length allow for short light rifles that make hiking wood and steep hills much easier without particularly sacrificing inside 300 yard performance on the target and on game.
Click to expand...
Wow, what do you have against jack rabbits? When they overpopulate in SE Idaho, residents drive 'em and club 'em.
 
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