Yes, I realize what you are saying, and my range that I have shot is under the more picky 1000 and plus. Also I was shooting at large elk.I hang with a few buddies that 2 are world record holding bench@1000, and they have all the tools, Im still picking stuff up, they dont even shoot a antelope unless it is 1000.THE one buddy put 5 rnds in1 3/4 @ 1000 in practice week ago. He is at a match right now. I am very familar with what can be done, shot on local teams as a kid growing up rifle, and on a state champ pistol team.
Shooting up hill/ Shooting down hill?
- Thread starter kc
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WildRose
Well-Known Member
If I were in your shoes I'd take both the .30 and the .270 to a competant gunsmith and have them accurized to the best degree possible within your budget.
Then find a load for either/both that will consistently give you sub MOA performance. You really need .5MOA to get to where you want to be at 1000.
With buddies like those two I'd have them look at what you have and give you their best advice.
That will be far more valuable than the advice any of us can give you.
Yes, I realize what you are saying, and my range that I have shot is under the more picky 1000 and plus. Also I was shooting at large elk.I hang with a few buddies that 2 are world record holding bench@1000, and they have all the tools, Im still picking stuff up, they dont even shoot a antelope unless it is 1000.THE one buddy put 5 rnds in1 3/4 @ 1000 in practice week ago. He is at a match right now. I am very familar with what can be done, shot on local teams as a kid growing up rifle, and on a state champ pistol team. I am not trying to dismiss calculations at all, all for them. Just making a point of being familar with the terrain and game, I have spent so much time in some of my favorite spots that I know a lot of the yardages by heart, to a certain rock , slide, finger ridge, etc. And where I hunt a laser is useless 1/2 the time because of weather, I keep a small photo album, where I road hunt for bears, and have yrd. noted with small sharpie pen on land marks.Nothing flat where I hunt and I APPLY same principals to my archery shots.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
Let me see if I can put this in very simple terms.
When you get to 1000yds and beyond you are talking about extreme precision shooting to have any sort of consistent performance.
That is why I'm suggesting start with accurizing the rifle/rifles to whatever extent your budget allows and then it is essential to come up with an MOA or sub MOA load.
Without the capability of consistent long range accuracy it is impossible to attain long range precision.
I hope that makes sense.
BTW I used your program in "the old days" and yessir it worked just fine!
Im in agreement with you all the way, I practice all that you are saying, I just dont have a personal portable ballistic solution at this point, but will soon. I am a builder and our economy is not good right now.I do my intial on jbl and then field work, and sorry I double posted.
WildRose
Well-Known Member
"stuff happens". At your age a couple of sheets of paper and a slide rule should be plenty... . HA!
WildRose
Well-Known Member
No unless I misread it, you've got 20 years on me. I'm 48.What are you making fun of my mildot master nowBy the way where the same age
I was amongst the last classes however to compete in UIL slide rule competition in HS. After that year it was all calculator.
Maybe I typoed, I refernced 20 yrs. in mtns. but it has been 36 hunting same stuff. I'll be an older man like you next month
Always wanted to shot a bear on my birthday
WildRose
Well-Known Member
Well look on the bright side. I find I'm capable of doing everything I could at thirty now as well. It just hurts worse, takes longer to get over, but on the brighter side you'll find yourself getting so senile you often can't remember what hurt an hour ago but you're wondering what it is you did to hurt something else and can't remember either... .gun)Maybe I typoed, I refernced 20 yrs. in mtns. but it has been 36 hunting same stuff. I'll be an older man like you next month
Hey, guys you're making it too difficult shooting up and down hill.
The only distance that really matters is the horizontal distance to the target. The velocity gained from shooting down hill or velocity lost shooting up hill doesn't make any difference to your hold over point. Longer distance vertically (up or down) only speeds up or slows down your bullet your bullet. The added time in flight shooting up hill might add a little bit of difference but at hunting ranges it is minimal. The hold over to use is that of the horizontal distance to the target.
The only distance that really matters is the horizontal distance to the target. The velocity gained from shooting down hill or velocity lost shooting up hill doesn't make any difference to your hold over point. Longer distance vertically (up or down) only speeds up or slows down your bullet your bullet. The added time in flight shooting up hill might add a little bit of difference but at hunting ranges it is minimal. The hold over to use is that of the horizontal distance to the target.
Michael Eichele
Well-Known Member
Dont start. You will loose.
I will tell you what is too difficult. That is using the horozontal distance and missing the trophy of a lifetime. I know I dont want to live with that.
For closer ranges at minimal angle, horizontal distance is fair. If you are going to do something at all, do it right.
Aside from using the horizontal range method being mathematically wrong, add the factor of your line of sight distance is STILL 'X' yards. By using horizontal distance your MIL value is wrong, your MOA values are wrong, your click values are wrong etc....In other words if you are shooting at 1K and aim for 700 yards based on LOS distance * cosine of angle which your drop chart tells you to aim 69 clicks for 700 yards. Using a .25 MOA click value this works out to 1.75 MOA per click at 700 yards. The value for 1K is 2.5 MOA per click. So 2.5 MOA instead of 1.75 = 48 clicks. You would hit WAY too high my friend! To me, that is too difficult. There is a reason NONE of the ballistic calculators DO NOT use the horizontal distance method. If it worked at all, they would use it.
If you are going to cut corners at least use the improved riflemans method. That is taking actual line of sight MOA, Click or inch value * cosine of the angle. This method is FAR more accurate than taking line of sight * cosine.
M
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I agree. My son is 16 and in wrestling, football, track, baseball,hunts. One of the assistant coaches that I went to HS with is a x SEAL and former instructor for same. He is 50, 6' plus and over 200 lbs. He jumped on pull up bar and cranked out 22 pull ups, beat all the kids. I could do 30 when I got out of HS. I WENT TO BAR I set up for son , did 14. Next day felt like someone was pulling my arms off
WildRose
Well-Known Member
I suggest you read the thread as there's a lot of valuable information.
Your points work fine for distances out to about 400-500yds at any angle.
They will fail you miserably beyond 800 yards, and make you cry at 1000 or more.
