Sendero 300WBY or Ultra??

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by larryaguilar, Jun 18, 2003.

  1. larryaguilar

    larryaguilar Well-Known Member

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    I am thinking about buying a new sendero in 300 WBY that I found at my local gun store

    Should I buy the 300 WBY or Order one in 300 Ultra???

    Pros & Cons
    -the Ultra is beltless more accurate
    -Wby after proper resizing can be as accurate
    -Wby has freebore
    -I heard that the Ultra has a lot of freebore
    due to remington's lawyers TRUE??
    -Ultra is faster
    -Wby has norma making it's brass
    -Ultra brass is it's weak point
    -1000 Yrd guns - hardly hear of 300 Ultra
    -1000 Yrd guns - 300 Wby and Improved of some sort are standard

    -Sounds like it comes down to speed of the Ultra and the norma brass of the Wby

    -I think I can give up some speed for more consistent reloads

    -What do you guys think, It's a hard choice just want to pick the right one
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    If it were me, I would go with the ultra. Cheaper brass, cheaper factory loads ect... Also better inherant accuracy, more power, less wind drift, less drop. Dont get excited about the freebore. The freebore in the remington 700 will likley be the same between the 2. Remington rifles acctually has more freebore than weatherby rifles. The reason you dont hear much of the ultra on the 1000 yard scene is time and exposure. It will become one of the .30 standard 30's to beat. I am not knocking the wby either, I happen to like the 300 wby. However, I think it is becoming outdated. Better performance less money. The choice for me would be the ultra. I am not sure what all there is for ultra brass, but if there is nothing premium now, I am sure there soon will be. It is a fast rising star.

    [ 06-18-2003: Message edited by: Michael Eichele ]
     
  3. Boyd Heaton

    Boyd Heaton Well-Known Member

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    The 1000 yard 10 shot score world record is held with a 300 Ultra.Using Rem brass... [​IMG]
     
  4. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    Larry

    I will differ with other other posters.

    You hit the nail on the head, go for the consistency of the brass versus speed, particularily in a 24-26" barrel. I will always take a cartridge where I do not have to sort 200 cases to get 20-40 match quality cases, when you sort by weight and other parameters. Now in the Sendaros that is really not a major factor, but if you want put a match quality barrel in the same caliber on later, you need to think about that. Right now Remington is at the back of the pack on case quality and life compared to others.

    Just because brass is cheaper to start with does not mean it is "cheaper" in the long run, when you have to buy 10 cases to get 2-3 and they only last about 1/3 of the time of the Norma and other better quality brass. That is not cheaper! Personally I do not like to waste my time constantly trying to find match quality cases for my 1k and LR guns.

    Belts have nothing to do with accuracy and you just have to know how to adjust your dies.

    There is no better inherent accuracy between the two cartridges, both are equally accurate in similar guns. Both can be made to shoot equally well but one requires more work on cases. However, I could also make an arguement that the wtby is the more efficiant case and as such will lend itself to better accuracy with all other things being equal.

    As for the 300 ultra being a rising star in 1k, I doubt it very seriously until someone besides Remington starts making match quality cases. Even a blind hog can find an acorn now and then, but I do not want to depend on him. You can make a gun work with Rem cases but you spend all your time on cases. Too much work for cases when better cases are out there to start with.

    Just my opinion and most other 1k shooters agree, but not all and if case sorting makes someones day, then go with Rem cases.
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Larry,
    I totally agree with BH , I personally have shot a 300wby at 1k matches and hunted with one for years. We currently have a 300wby sendaro within our hunting set up , that we turn to quite often. Quite honestly the rifle is 100%, we have taken every animal that we have ever attempted to take with it out to 925 yrds.
    The 300wby is not gonna pound ya to death at the bench like a RUM will.
    I believe if your gonna be shootin game at greater distances the RUM is the way to go but if your gonna hug the 1k mark the wby would be my choice. All in all it comes down to what you want nobody can make the final decision but you!!!!!! [​IMG]
    Oh Yeah if ya go with the wby and your not happy you could always throw a longer tube on it and go with the RUM later, or run a reamer through it.

    [ 06-19-2003: Message edited by: 338-378 ]
     
  6. JustC

    JustC Well-Known Member

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    I was able to get only 2 lots that varied by 1/2% in weight across them from my bag of 100 300RUM brass (remington). I'd say that's pretty good so far, not to mention I havn't found a single bad primer pocket yet and I have worked with 60 of the cases at this point. The variance in length was no more than .005" across the lot as well.

    After fireforming and expander mandrel...The neck thickness only varied by an occasional .0004",...once again, on a limited basis. I must have either gotten the best brass they ever made, or the brass is improving. I'm not saying yall are incorrect,...it WAS NOT the brass I wanted (I never wanted remington as a first choice in anything),...but it was all that was available in bulk and I wanted the 300rum caliber, so I had to go that route.

    Thickness was right at .015"-.0146" +/-. That leaves plenty of turn down room to make perfect necks at .014". It's not Lapua,...but I'll take it for now. [​IMG]
    -

    338-378, how do you feel the RUM compares to the Hart (.30 cal of course) with reguards to paper and hunting? Either one better or is this a ford/chevy thing?

    thanks

    [ 06-19-2003: Message edited by: JustC ]

    [ 06-19-2003: Message edited by: JustC ]
     
  7. demarpaint

    demarpaint Well-Known Member

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    Go with the 300 RUM and don't look back. Check out what some of the others are achieving with the 300 RUM, some nice custom wildcats can be built off of it as well.

    Frank D
     
  8. Celt

    Celt Active Member

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    300 RUM hands down.
    So far the Remmy brass has been great, well except for the very first few lots, there where some dinged ones and messed shoulders, but that is long gone and it was only the first couple months that loaded ammo was on the market.

    In the near future we are going to offer a match load geared mostly for the Tactical shooters, but it will work great for anything else if you do not handload.
    It will have either a 200 or 220 GR SMK in it.

    FWIW
    Celt
     
  9. sniper2

    sniper2 Well-Known Member

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    At first the rum cases were not very consistent, the last few runs I have checked are much better, guess they had to get screwed down. Some friends of mine have several 300rum's all shoot sub-min but the most of them have Pac/Nor or Hart barrels.
    The Wby round is a fine round and can't be overlooked, at the same time it has been around a long time and accumulated a lot of fans. When the 300RUM has been around as long
    see how many followers it has?
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Just C,
    In regards to the 30Hart as far as paper punching I would Yes most definately. As far as Hunting I would lean toward the 300RUM simply because of the Vel. Energy difference at extended ranges. Boyd's 300RUM will stay neck and neck with my 30Hart as far as accuracy. He's got the edge way out there though. I personally wouldn't want the pounding of the 300RUM at the bench in a match situation where you could end up shooting towards 30 rds. (I'm talking light rifle) I have shot the 300WBY and the 300RUM in the Sendero rifles there is a distinct difference in felt recoil brake or no brake. 30 rounds out of a 300 RUM in a match situation and you'll be stuttering for 3 days. Inside 1000yrds in any hunting situation it ain't gonna mean sqwat between the two. Ya hit an animal right with either and they're DEAD.
    The only drawback if it is a drawback to the 30 Hart is the fireforming, other than that its a fine cartridge. Between the 300 wby 30Hart and the 300RUM inside 1k it really doesn't matter except for the recoil. An animal or a piece of paper isn't gonna know the difference but you will.............
    As far as accuracy goes and winning matchs the 300RUM is fairly new. As more and more guys try them they'll have their share of glory with the cartridge. Just remember every dog has their day. Right now there is a lot of the 1k guys going the other way with their cartridges like the 6.5 - 284 cause they just can't figure out why that little girl keeps moppin up every week.
     
  11. ricciardelli

    ricciardelli Well-Known Member

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    .300 Remington Ugly Mag...
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ricca,
    REALLY UGLY MAGNUM! BUT I'LL OWN ONE!! HEHEHEHE [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  13. JustC

    JustC Well-Known Member

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    338-378,..how much vel diff is there between the two?

    Thanks
     
  14. Boyd Heaton

    Boyd Heaton Well-Known Member

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    JustC.....My loads for the 220gr MK's is running 3135 in a 30" barrel....I think 338's Hart is running somewhere around 2950 I think...FWIW...I run the 240's at 3003fps in my Ultra.....