Sendero 300 RUM; Shoot it, re-barrel it, or build new?

[taltom]

I'm trying to decide which direction to go and I don't know if I'll ever actually make it out West again or not, but I'm getting a serious itch to get ready for an elk hunt.

I have a Remington Sendero 300 RUM original version. It's 26", 10 twist and throated who knows where thats never been fired. The simple view of my options seems to be these:

Have a Harrell's 4-port or MBM Beast brake put on and develop a load for Berger 210 VLD or maybe 215 hybrid as it sets.

Have this Sendero throated for about .015" jump with whichever 210 or 215 seems to work best in similar barrels.

Have this Sendero re-barreled into a 30 Nosler.

Sell this one and buy or build a new one. I got a little exited over the Gunwerks 30 Nosler currently posted but prefer a 26" barrel. Hard to turn it down for the price though.

Any thoughts you'd care to share would be much appreciated.

 

[J E Custom]

I'm trying to decide which direction to go and I don't know if I'll ever actually make it out West again or not, but I'm getting a serious itch to get ready for an elk hunt.

I have a Remington Sendero 300 RUM original version. It's 26", 10 twist and throated who knows here thats never been fired. The simple view of my options seems to be these:

Have a Harrell's brake put on and develop a load for Berger 210 VLD or maybe 215 hybrid as it sets.

Have this one throated for about .015" jump with whichever 210 or 215 seems to work best in similar barrels.

Have this Sendero re-barreled into a 30 Nosler.

Sell this one and buy or build a new one. I got a little exited over the Gunwerks 30 Nosler currently posted but prefer a 26" barrel. Hard to turn it down for the price though.

Any thoughts you'd care to share would be much appreciated.

The 300 RUM is a great cartridge and a great one for elk, so first I would shoot it and see what it likes. Most rums like the 180 grain bullets because of their barrel contour and some times a 200 grain will work.

VLD bullets are very finicky and sometimes don't shoot very well in some barrels and lots of time and money is spent trying to make a barrel like one bullet when it is not necessary unless you are planning on shooting well over 1000 yards at Elk.

My recommendation would be to shoot bullets in the 180 class with a standard Ojive and don't worry about the small difference in BCs. Load to mag length and let the freebore do its job. Right now Norma Brass is available at a very reasonable price for the RUM and is very good brass.

For normal hunting out to 1000 yards the Accubonds work very well and are extremely accurate. There are other bullets that are also Bonded and have a standard Ojive that could be substituted. don't get tricky just brake the barrel in (If it is new) and if you want a brake have it installed before testing (I recommend a 5/8 24 TPI brake of your choice) and if you re-barrel later this brake can be reused.

The Sendero is also a great rifle to build on because of all the parts you have and all the After market parts that are available for the 700 Rem if you decide to re barrel.

I would not choose any other 30 cal. over the 300 RUM because there is little ballistic differences and no advantage over it. It can be loaded down to 30/06 velocities and recoil and loaded up to blistering velocities and energies for hunting. I have nothing against the other 30,s (I also have a 30/378 and a 30 Texan plus my 300 RUM and they all have there place and are set up for different bullet weights.

I will never sell My 300 RUM to replace it, because I feel it cant be replaced. My 30 Texan was built to hold as much powder as a 300 RUM or a 375 RUM could hold, to push the largest 30 cal. bullets (It will hold 114 to 119 grains of the powders depending on the powder used, so I is just a 300 rum on steroids.

I may be a little Biased as far as the 300 RUM cartridge cases and the Sendero rifles, but I admit it, and as a gunsmith can highly recommend ether.

Just my opinion

J E CUSTOM

 

[Buttermilk]

The likelihood of you being able to "re-throat" it for a specific bullet is slim. Lot's of factory Remington RUM barrels were long throated to begin with.

The most likely scenario for the factory barrel is to see where your lands are, then simply have a Wyatt's extended box added to allow you seat a bullet close to or at the lands. Wyatt's has a couple of options that allow ~3.825" OAL and one that goes out to about 3.99"-4.00" length.

My factory RUM barrel (the slimmer mag profile) was throated so that I could seat a Berger 230 HT to right at 4.00" OAL. I now have a Krieger bbl and it has 0.098" freebore and I also have a Wyatt's extended box for 3.825" OAL. Works good with the 0.098" freebore.

I'd shoot the factory barrel first as JE Custom suggested. Then go from there.

My 300 RUM will shoot the 210 Berger VLDH to 3150 FPS from a 27" bbl at ~ 0.4 MOA with only about 35 rounds down the tube so far.

 

[Wedgy]

I have the Sendero SFII in 300 RUM and I think it is the finest rifle Remington ever made, nothing like the current junk they produce, like it came from a different factory. The chamber was cut clean, the barrel was lapped, the action is smooth and the trigger is clean. It shoots the Berger 230 OTM at 2,980fps at mag length using Retumbo 0.3 MOA making it the most accurate factory gun I have ever had.
I would put the MBM brake on and keep it. Harrels are great for the price but the APA and MBM are a bit more effective. Once you start shooting the RUM you will want another ! I have 3 now in 300 and a 7mm

 

[lancetkenyon]

Shoot it. Use either a 215 Hybrid or 230 Hybrid. Both should shoot great from a 1:10" twist. And they kill elk like they were hit by a lightning bolt.

A 210 HVLD will kill just fine as well, as has been proven in my rifle. I just prefer the Hybrids now myself.

 

[J E Custom]

The reason I suggest a 180 grain bullet for the 300 RUM Sendero is the barrel weight and the velocity. Mine shoots a bit over 3350 in a 26" barrel and when you compare The trajectory and the energy at reasonable hunting distance. Most people take there Elk at 500 yards or less.

Don't get me wrong, I like the bigger bullets but believe in working up in bullet weight to see what the barrel likes and shoots the best, rather than waist time and money, Not to mention barrel life only to find out that a barrel does not like heavy bullets.

Start with the 180's and work up.

Just my opinion

J E CUSTOM

 

[coop2564]

God bless you and your shoulder!

 

[lancetkenyon]

I used to be a "superfast and light" lover. Where a 180 would shine for shorter distances in a .300RUM.

Now I am a "fast and heavy" lover. Here is my reasoning.

Here are some ballistics with altitude of approx 7000' AMSL (23.42 baro), 60°F, 50% humidity, with a 10mph 90° wind. Very viable elk hunting situation. In fact, the exact conditions I just shot my bull on Friday in. Less the wind. But I used my 7RM pushing a 180 Hybrid @ 2996 for my 662 yard shot. My .300RUM is for the long shot should the need arise.

Berger (and a lot of other bullets) suggests 1800ft/sec minimum velocity for reliable expansion. And most "experts" will say 1500ft/lbs of energy minimum for elk. Your opinions might vary. Mine do slightly as well.

185 HVLD @ 3360fps MV with a G1 BC of .549 (what my old.load was) vs. 230 Hybrid @ 3068fps MV with a G1 BC of .743 (my current load).

Drop in inches, drop in MIL, wind drift, retained velocity, retained energy

Let's first start with your 500 yards range that you suggested as most hunter's max shot. Which I agree with as well.

185 HVLD @ 3360fps w. 235 yd zero
-23.2" drop, U1.3 MIL, 9.2" drift, 2654fps, 2895ft/lbs

230 Hybrid @ 3068fps w. 235 yd zero
-27.0" drop, U1.5 MIL, 7.2" drift, 2569fps, 3371ft/lbs

Both are plenty for elk.
3.8" less drop for the 185
2" less drift for the 230
85fps faster for the 185
476 more ft/lbs of energy for the 230

But now let's go out to maximum suggested range for the 185 and see how that compares.with the 230. Same conditions.

185 around 1130 yards
-238.9" drop, 5.9MIL, 52.1" drift, 1908fps, 1495ft/lbs

230 @ 1130 yards
255.5" drop, 6.3MIL, 40.3" drift, 2015fps, 2073ft/lbs

16.6" less drop for 185
11.8" less drift for 230
107 more fps for 230
578 more ft/lbs for 230

And last, let's go out to suggested max for the 230 and compare. 1400 yards

185
435.4" drop, U8.6MIL, 85.0" drift, 1634fps, 1096.9ft/lbs

230 Hybrid
-448.9" drop, U8.9MIL, 64.9" drift, 1801.8fps, 1657.9ft/lbs

13.5" less drop for 185
20.1" less drift for 230
167 more fps 230
561 ft/lbs more 230

I would take a bit more drop but less wind drift and much higher energy transfer on target for elk myself.

I do admit, it is at a higher recoil factor that is definitely noticeable while shooting from a bench. By you won't notice it for the one shot you take on game when the adrenaline is flowing.

Just my preferences.

 

[MudRunner2005]

If you rebarrel it to .30 Nosler, then you could sell that brand new never fired Sendero .300 RUM barrel for a pretty penny on eBay... Probably about what an aftermarket Bartlein blank would run you.

 

[lancetkenyon]

Why downgrade to a 30 Nosler? What does a 30 Nosler do that a .300RUM won't do better? Why would you switch? 30 Nosler is minutely hotter than a .300WM, just no belt. Which the .300RUM doesn't have either. And I seriously doubt you could sell a factory Sendero takeoff barrel for $300+.

 

[WildRose]

I have two of the same model rifle in the same caliber and both of them shoot great. Put a decent brake or suppressor on it and don't look back.

The Norwest precision MB is very effective at both reducing recoil and muzzle flip and is rather easy on the ears as well.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Perfor...var=520190416845&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

I have the slotted version as you see in that picture.

 

[J E Custom]

I used to be a "superfast and light" lover. Where a 180 would shine for shorter distances in a .300RUM.

Now I am a "fast and heavy" lover. Here is my reasoning.

Here are some ballistics with altitude of approx 7000' AMSL (23.42 baro), 60°F, 50% humidity, with a 10mph 90° wind. Very viable elk hunting situation. In fact, the exact conditions I just shot my bull on Friday in. Less the wind. But I used my 7RM pushing a 180 Hybrid @ 2996 for my 662 yard shot. My .300RUM is for the long shot should the need arise.

Berger (and a lot of other bullets) suggests 1800ft/sec minimum velocity for reliable expansion. And most "experts" will say 1500ft/lbs of energy minimum for elk. Your opinions might vary. Mine do slightly as well.

185 HVLD @ 3360fps MV with a G1 BC of .549 (what my old.load was) vs. 230 Hybrid @ 3068fps MV with a G1 BC of .743 (my current load).

Drop in inches, drop in MIL, wind drift, retained velocity, retained energy

Let's first start with your 500 yards range that you suggested as most hunter's max shot. Which I agree with as well.

185 HVLD @ 3360fps w. 235 yd zero
-23.2" drop, U1.3 MIL, 9.2" drift, 2654fps, 2895ft/lbs

230 Hybrid @ 3068fps w. 235 yd zero
-27.0" drop, U1.5 MIL, 7.2" drift, 2569fps, 3371ft/lbs

Both are plenty for elk.
3.8" less drop for the 185
2" less drift for the 230
85fps faster for the 185
476 more ft/lbs of energy for the 230

But now let's go out to maximum suggested range for the 185 and see how that compares.with the 230. Same conditions.

185 around 1130 yards
-238.9" drop, 5.9MIL, 52.1" drift, 1908fps, 1495ft/lbs

230 @ 1130 yards
255.5" drop, 6.3MIL, 40.3" drift, 2015fps, 2073ft/lbs

16.6" less drop for 185
11.8" less drift for 230
107 more fps for 230
578 more ft/lbs for 230

And last, let's go out to suggested max for the 230 and compare. 1400 yards

185
435.4" drop, U8.6MIL, 85.0" drift, 1634fps, 1096.9ft/lbs

230 Hybrid
-448.9" drop, U8.9MIL, 64.9" drift, 1801.8fps, 1657.9ft/lbs

13.5" less drop for 185
20.1" less drift for 230
167 more fps 230
561 ft/lbs more 230

I would take a bit more drop but less wind drift and much higher energy transfer on target for elk myself.

I do admit, it is at a higher recoil factor that is definitely noticeable while shooting from a bench. By you won't notice it for the one shot you take on game when the adrenaline is flowing.

Just my preferences.

I totally agree with you if you are going to shoot 1400 yards on a regular basis, but what percentage of people on this site can truthfully say they have taken shots at these distances. When I hunted Elk, I felt comfortable with my 338 to 1200 yards. The longest shot I was ever presented was 950 yards and the Elk was walking towards me so I elected to wait for a closer less risky shot and at 450 he presented me with a broad side shot.

Normally the decision to shoot is based on many things, and until I feel good about the shot, I wont take it at any distance. My personal longest shot was 819 yards. But I will kill a rock at any distance. so after over 50 years of hunting I am always prepared for the rifles max effective range but have never tested one at this distance, mainly because of the comfort factor and possibly because where I have hunted, 1000 yards + shots have never presented them selves. So I try to be practical and use what's best for the conditions. (No need to use the 50 BMG on deer).

I envy people that have unlimited hunting distance for our sport but I am very practical and even though I like the big bores, I often choose a smaller, lighter bullet to be practical.

This has been a good thread and I hope more will comment.

J E CUSTOM

 

[MudRunner2005]

Why downgrade to a 30 Nosler? What does a 30 Nosler do that a .300RUM won't do better? Why would you switch? 30 Nosler is minutely hotter than a .300WM, just no belt. Which the .300RUM doesn't have either. And I seriously doubt you could sell a factory Sendero takeoff barrel for $300+.

First off, I never said $300+, and I never said it would cost exactly what an aftermarket blank would cost. I said "nearly".

Now, here's a few examples...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Remingt...832124?hash=item4b27a7713c:g:9wAAAOSwP6pZmPLg

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Remingt...356000?hash=item3d4955aa60:g:K00AAOSwsm1ZxUKR

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Remingt...613151?hash=item3d49875d9f:g:Kr4AAOSwWxNYoxNA

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Remington-7...165868?hash=item466c81f0ec:g:8qMAAOSwzilZvsFM

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Remington-7...554869?hash=item2a8f76d035:g:VtkAAOSwlRZZzZNb

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Remington-7...569691?hash=item440cdcbf9b:g:YDIAAOSwgPZZcQZI

http://www.ebay.com/itm/REMINGTON-M...181494?hash=item2f0c33c1f6:g:FYkAAOSwiv1Zzdg5

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Remington-7...123201?hash=item440cb76b01:g:lhsAAOSw6lxZcibk

 

[lancetkenyon]

I totally agree with you if you are going to shoot 1400 yards on a regular basis, but what percentage of people on this site can truthfully say they have taken shots at these distances. When I hunted Elk, I felt comfortable with my 338 to 1200 yards. The longest shot I was ever presented was 950 yards and the Elk was walking towards me so I elected to wait for a closer less risky shot and at 450 he presented me with a broad side shot.

Normally the decision to shoot is based on many things, and until I feel good about the shot, I wont take it at any distance. My personal longest shot was 819 yards. But I will kill a rock at any distance. so after over 50 years of hunting I am always prepared for the rifles max effective range but have never tested one at this distance, mainly because of the comfort factor and possibly because where I have hunted, 1000 yards + shots have never presented them selves. So I try to be practical and use what's best for the conditions. (No need to use the 50 BMG on deer).

I envy people that have unlimited hunting distance for our sport but I am very practical and even though I like the big bores, I often choose a smaller, lighter bullet to be practical.

This has been a good thread and I hope more will comment.

J E CUSTOM

Again, I am with you. My personal longest shot at a big game animal just happened this elk season. 662 yards. I practice out to 1500+ on a regular basis, just in case the need would ever arise. But I doubt I would ever take that shot. I would think 1000 would be my personal.max. Too many factors that could go wrong, and that is not fair to the game animals we pursue.