Semi Autos legal to hunt big game in PA.

[CMP70306]

No need for those noise makers in the PA woods !!!!! Just what we need a million AR's rattling off 10 shots with a handful of doe tags.....it wl be a disaster....

Your right...no need for anything more than 4 shots and BAN THE SUPPRESSORS ALSO.....and body armor and the rest of this crap...just remember that the "others" have also been buying the same crap... let's watch what happens in Texas when the loonies can also carry..I'm predicting the police are going to go insane !!

You know I wasn't actually going to respond but the stupid in these two posts sucked me in.

First off there were only 860,000 hunters left in PA and due to the long archery season rifle hunters have dropped below 500,000. Second I see mixed numbers at best but roughly 50% support allowing semi autos for deer which means a max of 250,000 hunters are willing to use a semi for deer. Take a cross section of my group to see how many would use a semi auto then extrapolate it and I predict the number of semi autos hunting deer in the PA woods for rifle would be below 50,000. So in other words more deer will be killed by cars than hunters killing multiple deer at a time with a semi auto.

Also since you want to bring suppressors into it i should let you know you should stop because you are clearly ignorant on the topic and should do some research before spouting off nonsense. I hunt and shoot almost exclusively with a suppressor and will never go back to not using one, it isn't silent like you think and when I shoot everybody on the farm I hunt knows that I shot even if they are over half a mile away.

But you know what it does do? Stops the days worth of ringing in my ears because I wasn't able to get my ear pro on in time. I went deaf in my right ear for a week because the guy sitting next to me shot a deer before I had a chance to put my ear pro on. Do you have any idea how unnerving it is to realize that at 18 that you might have permanently lost your hearing because of someone else's carelessness?

In 2019 I shot a 475# black bear 4 times with my 6.5 PRC, it ran over the hill and the entire encounter lasted less than 15 seconds. This means that had I not been suppressed I would have either not gotten the bear or lost my hearing in the process. Due to childhood hearing issues in addition to my early ear pro less hunting years it already rings enough when it gets quiet in the house, I don't need to make it any worse.

 

[yobuck]

Well did the rifle hunter numbers drop because of the long archery season, or did they drop because the long archery season also includes rifles?
I mean cross bows.

 

[MIBirdhunter]

I've watched a lot of hunting regulations change over the years... lead shot, tree stands, baiting and different firearm and bow regulations (crossbows)?? Every time the world is coming to an end... a ban on semi-autos??? Can't believe that on a pro hunting site people would support such a thing...

 

[Coyote Shadow Tracker]

Yes we know how people vote there with Boden in office now. LETS BAN all them evil black machines of death and noise. And while we are at it let's not let them have suppressors so they can make more noise and complain about it.

This quote was a jab at the socialists liberals.

 

[CMP70306]

Well did the rifle hunter numbers drop because of the long archery season, or did they drop because the long archery season also includes rifles?
I mean cross bows.

Rifle hunters dropped for many reasons and the main ones I can think of are increased archery opportunities, increased emphasis on trophy bucks, population age, and the decline in drives/hunters walking around. The big thing these days is to shoot big bucks and the best time to do that is the beginning of November during the rut. In PA this opportunity is only offered to archery gear so if you are a big buck hunter you have to be a bow hunter. Additionally most newer hunters are more likely to start in archery, I know few older hunters that use archery equipment but almost every young hunter I know has a compound/crossbow or both.

The final thing is just the number of people in the woods and the style of hunting that is very different from the 17 years ago when I started. Since many people are hunting the early seasons by the time rifle rolls around the deer know they are being hunted and are primarily moving at night. Back in the day you had guys out driving which got the deer on their feet and moving leading to a bunch of shooting as the deer moved past the different groups of hunters. These days there isn't much of that going on so the deer get holed up in the thick stuff and don't come out until dark leaving many old stump hunters to either give up or switch to archery and hunt the early season when deer are more predictable.

The crossbow has helped introduce and retain hunters that can't draw a bow but it surely isn't a gun like most purist act like it is. I've hunted with both a compound and a crossbow for several years, never managed to kill a deer with either as almost every one I shot at ducked the string and two that didn't I missed with the compound due to inexperience in my teens. All of those deer that ducked were between 25 and 50 yards, a range that I have missed exactly once with a rifle in 17 years and that was due to hitting a limb 5 yards from the muzzle.

So the short version is if crossbows were as effective as rifles I'd have 4 more nice bucks to my name and several more does in my freezer.

 

[rharfo]

Rifle hunters dropped for many reasons and the main ones I can think of are increased archery opportunities, increased emphasis on trophy bucks, population age, and the decline in drives/hunters walking around. The big thing these days is to shoot big bucks and the best time to do that is the beginning of November during the rut. In PA this opportunity is only offered to archery gear so if you are a big buck hunter you have to be a bow hunter. Additionally most newer hunters are more likely to start in archery, I know few older hunters that use archery equipment but almost every young hunter I know has a compound/crossbow or both.

The final thing is just the number of people in the woods and the style of hunting that is very different from the 17 years ago when I started. Since many people are hunting the early seasons by the time rifle rolls around the deer know they are being hunted and are primarily moving at night. Back in the day you had guys out driving which got the deer on their feet and moving leading to a bunch of shooting as the deer moved past the different groups of hunters. These days there isn't much of that going on so the deer get holed up in the thick stuff and don't come out until dark leaving many old stump hunters to either give up or switch to archery and hunt the early season when deer are more predictable.

The crossbow has helped introduce and retain hunters that can't draw a bow but it surely isn't a gun like most purist act like it is. I've hunted with both a compound and a crossbow for several years, never managed to kill a deer with either as almost every one I shot at ducked the string and two that didn't I missed with the compound due to inexperience in my teens. All of those deer that ducked were between 25 and 50 yards, a range that I have missed exactly once with a rifle in 17 years and that was due to hitting a limb 5 yards from the muzzle.

So the short version is if crossbows were as effective as rifles I'd have 4 more nice bucks to my name and several more does in my freezer.

Well said

 

[zach_destroys]

Your right...no need for anything more than 4 shots and BAN THE SUPPRESSORS ALSO.....and body armor and the rest of this crap...just remember that the "others" have also been buying the same crap... let's watch what happens in Texas when the loonies can also carry..I'm predicting the police are going to go insane !!

You don't like the constitution much do you?

 

[West Calamus]

Your right...no need for anything more than 4 shots and BAN THE SUPPRESSORS ALSO.....and body armor and the rest of this crap...just remember that the "others" have also been buying the same crap... let's watch what happens in Texas when the loonies can also carry..I'm predicting the police are going to go insane !!

It is funny how OSHA requires work place hearing protection but we cannot put a muffler on our firearms due to a out dated 1930's gun act ( you can, but you have to feed the bureaucracy). As far as Texas permit less conceal carry new law, you just don't get it Pard!!! The loonies and criminals already carry permit less!!!!, We are just trying to level the playing field.

 

[yobuck]

Rifle hunters dropped for many reasons and the main ones I can think of are increased archery opportunities, increased emphasis on trophy bucks, population age, and the decline in drives/hunters walking around. The big thing these days is to shoot big bucks and the best time to do that is the beginning of November during the rut. In PA this opportunity is only offered to archery gear so if you are a big buck hunter you have to be a bow hunter. Additionally most newer hunters are more likely to start in archery, I know few older hunters that use archery equipment but almost every young hunter I know has a compound/crossbow or both.

The final thing is just the number of people in the woods and the style of hunting that is very different from the 17 years ago when I started. Since many people are hunting the early seasons by the time rifle rolls around the deer know they are being hunted and are primarily moving at night. Back in the day you had guys out driving which got the deer on their feet and moving leading to a bunch of shooting as the deer moved past the different groups of hunters. These days there isn't much of that going on so the deer get holed up in the thick stuff and don't come out until dark leaving many old stump hunters to either give up or switch to archery and hunt the early season when deer are more predictable.

The crossbow has helped introduce and retain hunters that can't draw a bow but it surely isn't a gun like most purist act like it is. I've hunted with both a compound and a crossbow for several years, never managed to kill a deer with either as almost every one I shot at ducked the string and two that didn't I missed with the compound due to inexperience in my teens. All of those deer that ducked were between 25 and 50 yards, a range that I have missed exactly once with a rifle in 17 years and that was due to hitting a limb 5 yards from the muzzle.

So the short version is if crossbows were as effective as rifles I'd have 4 more nice bucks to my name and several more does in my freezer.

Well im not implying that a cross bow is the same as a rifle.
But there is also no doubt that there are more archery hunters since the introduction of cross bows.
A 50 yard shot with one is certainly a real possibility even for those with very little archery experience.
Not much difference than the average shot distance for the average rifle hunter wether they choose to participate in drives or sit on a stump.
The recent archery buck kill numbers pretty much verify whats happening do they not?

 

[CMP70306]

Well im not implying that a cross bow is the same as a rifle.
But there is also no doubt that there are more archery hunters since the introduction of cross bows.
A 50 yard shot with one is certainly a real possibility even for those with very little archery experience.
Not much difference than the average shot distance for the average rifle hunter wether they choose to participate in drives or sit on a stump.
The recent archery buck kill numbers pretty much verify whats happening do they not?

Hypothetically yes but unfortunately my archery license data only goes back to 2006 and my weapon specific harvest data only goes back to 2012.

Based on that info there was a bump in archery license sold the year crossbows were legalized from 260,000 to 275,000 in 2009 and increased yearly until it plateaued around 320,000 in 2014 and has held there for the past few years. However if you include the junior and senior combo licenses then the number continues to increase until last year when 56% of hunters held an archery license. This also coincided with a 90,000 total license decrease from 950,000 in 2006 to 860,000 in 2019 which tends to reinforce the idea that those who quit the sport in many cases were rifle only hunters.

Archery buck harvests however showed a bump from 31.5% in 2012 to 37% in 2013 where they stayed until 2019 and 2020 when they jumped to 45% of the buck harvest. So since I don't have any pre-crossbow harvest data and the increased harvest after that also coincides with an increased season length and an overall increased interest in archery hunting its hard to say how much of that increase can solely be attributed to crossbows.

Even if it did based on the data from other states the success rate between vertical bows and crossbows was only a few percent but nowhere near that of rifle hunters.

 

[yobuck]

Hypothetically yes but unfortunately my archery license data only goes back to 2006 and my weapon specific harvest data only goes back to 2012.

Based on that info there was a bump in archery license sold the year crossbows were legalized from 260,000 to 275,000 in 2009 and increased yearly until it plateaued around 320,000 in 2014 and has held there for the past few years. However if you include the junior and senior combo licenses then the number continues to increase until last year when 56% of hunters held an archery license. This also coincided with a 90,000 total license decrease from 950,000 in 2006 to 860,000 in 2019 which tends to reinforce the idea that those who quit the sport in many cases were rifle only hunters.

Archery buck harvests however showed a bump from 31.5% in 2012 to 37% in 2013 where they stayed until 2019 and 2020 when they jumped to 45% of the buck harvest. So since I don't have any pre-crossbow harvest data and the increased harvest after that also coincides with an increased season length and an overall increased interest in archery hunting its hard to say how much of that increase can solely be attributed to crossbows.

Even if it did based on the data from other states the success rate between vertical bows and crossbows was only a few percent but nowhere near that of rifle hunters.

Keep in mind that the data issued by the PGC is an estimated number. Maybe guestimated would be the better choice.
Many of the deer harvested by all methods are not reported to the PGC by the hunter.
Butcher shops and taxidermy shops are as a rule checked as for numbers, but not all of them, and certainly those butchered by the hunter are never checked.
It is a government agency, and the main goal of (all ) government agencys is to perpetuate the existence of the agency. period.
The appointed commissioners are simply head nodders who are selected by politicians for their past patronage.
They have very little say in the actual running of the agency.
There is essentially no field checking of game, nor is there any checking at camps. In almost 50 years our camp situated on a paved road has never been checked.
So how do they even begin to come up with these numbers?
Fact is they dont, they just play games with them.

 

[CMP70306]

They allowed semi rifles for small game last year and semi auto shotguns this year so I imagine we will be allowed to hunt deer with semi rifles in the near future. However I have not specifically heard where the rules were yet being changed to allow it.

So now several years later this popped back up in my notifications so I figured I'd update,

- Still no semi auto for big game, the PGC has alluded to pressure from politicians being the primary reason.
- rifle still banned for turkey despite the PGC admitting they messed up and there are more turkeys than previously reported,
- hunter numbers bumped up during Covid but are now around 840,000, the lowest since prior to 1950.
- archery continues to take a higher percentage of the buck harvest every year now sitting just under 50%.
- state is completely back to concurrent buck and doe rifle seasons after several years of first week buck only and second week concurrent. This change has not reversed the rapid decline the change started in the first place.

 

[WILLR]

Good hunters want to make a 1 shot instant kill. NO NEED for more than 1 shot only poor shooters need several shots, TEACH YOUR KIDS TO SHOOT and hit what they are aiming at.

 

[PBramble]

Good hunters want to make a 1 shot instant kill. NO NEED for more than 1 shot only poor shooters need several shots, TEACH YOUR KIDS TO SHOOT and hit what they are aiming at.

Cause bears always die on the first shot and follow ups are never needed.?