Scratching my head.... SET ME STRAIGHT

GrayCreed

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Joined
Jun 17, 2020
Messages
122
Location
Colorado
I know everyone is sick of hearing about all of these new calibers and arguments about tried and true calibers vs. new hot rods is not what I'm looking for. For the non-reloader, the newer calibers serve their purpose.

I personally haven't reloaded in years due to having kids and finding the time. I was a huge fan of the 308, 270, 300WM and I reloaded for all three. I had a lot of luck with all three but then the 6.5CM came out. I mainly used my 308 for hunting and the Creedmoor quickly replaced that role and then bled into my long range life. I felt the Creedmoor was a great cartridge that I could use efficiently for target as well as extended range hunting without having to reload so that was my go to for years until 2018 when the PRC came out which promised that extra distance on game. I know, most people don't eat the 6.5 apple but I did and I haven't looked back once. I'm able to get very consistent results on game and targets which I've verified over and over at different yardages and I'm very impressed with the accuracy and consistency. I've taken medium sized game out past 800 with zero issues. I plan to utilize this cartridge for elk next year to see where it stands. I've verified multiple hits on target from 100 yards out to 1,673 yards with factory ammo and I really can't see why I would need to reload again. I use the Sig 2400 BDS range finder to get my distance and firing solution, dial my minutes on my NF ATACR 4-16x50 and hold off for windage which is a very quick and easy system and sure beats using my mildot master. I can say I haven't been let down once. I consistently get hits on target over and over again with this system and it works for me.

Let me land the plane...

According to my the charts I have in Ballistics AE, JBM ballistics, as well as my range finder with the Applied Ballistics Software built in and all verified hits on target, I'm pushing a 143ELD-X at 3180FPS which is 220fps over what Hornady prints on the box (2960) and on their website. I cannot for the life of me understand how my rifle is pushing that fast but no matter how many times I verify at different distances, I'm on target consistently. I have never actually run it through my chronograph but in my opinion the charts and verified yardages are more accurate anyway. Can someone explain this to me?
Here's my 2 cents,
1. You haven't chronoed it so you don't know for sure it's going that fast.
2. The elevation you are shooting at affects tragectory. Higher elevation=thinner air=flatter tragectory... Hornady may be right about the velocity... You may also be right.... If you don't have the barometric and humidity atmospheric settings correct on your ballistics app it will default to sea level. You tragectory verification just means you know where the bullet holes will be at any range not what speed it will hit.
 

caiati

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Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
364
Here's my 2 cents,
1. You haven't chronoed it so you don't know for sure it's going that fast.
2. The elevation you are shooting at affects tragectory. Higher elevation=thinner air=flatter tragectory... Hornady may be right about the velocity... You may also be right.... If you don't have the barometric and humidity atmospheric settings correct on your ballistics app it will default to sea level. You tragectory verification just means you know where the bullet holes will be at any range not what speed it will hit.
I appreciate your thoughts and advice, however if you read through all the posts I did chrono after I posted to verify and it was still not up to snuff. I’ve enabled atmospheric conditions in my ballistics program which automatically updates to my position. My rangefinder also reads the atmosphere to give the firing solution so I’m covered there. My drop only changes 1/8 minute at 680Y from sea level in Virginia at 90°F in the middle of summer from 2200’ ASL at 25°F in December in Pennsylvania. Point being is that the elevation and weather changes don’t really come into account at those differences.

My trajectory verification hitting at ranges is actually going to prove the speed at which my bullet is traveling. I’m just happy I’ve got a fast barrel.
 

nksmfamjp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2004
Messages
1,044
I’m not sure how far you are shooting elk with your PRC, but please consider expansion velocity and energy.

If you hit an elk, which your practice shows you will, will the bullet be traveling over 1300fps? Ok, the tip will slightly smush, but likely needs 1600fps for decent expansion. If ok there, do you have the energy to expand and penetrate the entire thickness....I don’t have s as number forr red that, but I’m guessing 1200ft lbs??? Do others have something they use?

I only mention this because I know you intend to kill that elk. I think there is a real reason why we see more 30’s that 6.5’s in elk camp....even if we forget about all the 30-06/270 crowd. Around here, the word elk causes the 338 crowd to ring bells!
 

caiati

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
364
I’m not sure how far you are shooting elk with your PRC, but please consider expansion velocity and energy.

If you hit an elk, which your practice shows you will, will the bullet be traveling over 1300fps? Ok, the tip will slightly smush, but likely needs 1600fps for decent expansion. If ok there, do you have the energy to expand and penetrate the entire thickness....I don’t have s as number forr red that, but I’m guessing 1200ft lbs??? Do others have something they use?

I only mention this because I know you intend to kill that elk. I think there is a real reason why we see more 30’s that 6.5’s in elk camp....even if we forget about all the 30-06/270 crowd. Around here, the word elk causes the 338 crowd to ring bells!
I am well aware of the energy required to ethically kill an elk according to "?". The funny thing is ten years ago the numbers were claimed to be at a minimum 1000ft/lb for elk and 800ft/lb for deer. Somewhere along the line, the numbers were boosted up to 1500/1000 even though the ammunition got better and inherently more accurate calibers were introduced. I realize the 30 cal crowd will throw a tantrum for anyone attempting large game shots with anything less than what they feel comfortable with. I am not saying they are wrong, but the point they make does not cover everyone or every situation. I've seen more whitetail run away from 300WM and 7mmMag than 308's, 270's, 243's. It is all about shot placement and confidence. I'm not saying it's a wise idea to take a shot on an elk with a 6.5PRC at 1500y but I think people get a little crazy about the claims of needing cannons for animals. I am extremely confident in myself and my rifle. I have not lost an animal due to poor judgement yet and I don't plan on setting records on an elk with my rifle. That being said, I'm also not going to take any **** from anyone about my caliber choice. There are two different beliefs here and both arguments hold water - to each their own. My opinion is that accuracy trumps energy. One of the situations I witnessed was a hunter who was a friend of a friend carrying around his 300 UltraMag for whitetail. He set up on a deer at 430+ yards and missed the first shot. The deer didn't move and he fired again only to hit the deer in the hind quarter which basically all but blew the deer's leg off. The deer rolled down into the brush and bled out. Sure he got the kill but wasted the meat, the animal suffered, and his need for carrying a large overpowering caliber was justified because with a 243 or 6.5CM the deer would've most likely walked away from that incident. My argument is that no matter the caliber, shot placement is king.
 

caiati

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Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
364
I did not adjust my BC at all, just velocity. I’m currently at 0.623 and my drop at 1000y is 21.26 minutes
 

caiati

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
364
Did you adjust your BC at all or did you only true it using velocity? What BC are you using and what were your drops to 1000 yards?

Are you shooting at a waterline or just confirming a hit on target?
Waterline. The only hit on target was a rock at 1673yards. The rock was about 8’ wide and 3’ high. There was a distinct line just about on the middle of the rock. The bottom half had moss all over it and the top of the rock was clean. Right above the moss there was a dark circular spot that had to be about the size of a basketball. My first shot was about 24” low and after adjusting twice, I hit the dark spot every time.
 
Last edited:

nksmfamjp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2004
Messages
1,044
That being said, I'm also not going to take any **** from anyone about my caliber choice. There are two different beliefs here and both arguments hold water - to each their own. My opinion is that accuracy trumps energy.
I hope you didn’t take my post as questioning your choice. Not at all. You have to make these decisions for yourself.

Obviously you are set up to make first shot hits at long range in conditions. Nice shooting.
 

338 dude

Well-Known Member
LRH Team Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
2,111
Location
Tn
I know everyone is sick of hearing about all of these new calibers and arguments about tried and true calibers vs. new hot rods is not what I'm looking for. For the non-reloader, the newer calibers serve their purpose.

I personally haven't reloaded in years due to having kids and finding the time. I was a huge fan of the 308, 270, 300WM and I reloaded for all three. I had a lot of luck with all three but then the 6.5CM came out. I mainly used my 308 for hunting and the Creedmoor quickly replaced that role and then bled into my long range life. I felt the Creedmoor was a great cartridge that I could use efficiently for target as well as extended range hunting without having to reload so that was my go to for years until 2018 when the PRC came out which promised that extra distance on game. I know, most people don't eat the 6.5 apple but I did and I haven't looked back once. I'm able to get very consistent results on game and targets which I've verified over and over at different yardages and I'm very impressed with the accuracy and consistency. I've taken medium sized game out past 800 with zero issues. I plan to utilize this cartridge for elk next year to see where it stands. I've verified multiple hits on target from 100 yards out to 1,673 yards with factory ammo and I really can't see why I would need to reload again. I use the Sig 2400 BDS range finder to get my distance and firing solution, dial my minutes on my NF ATACR 4-16x50 and hold off for windage which is a very quick and easy system and sure beats using my mildot master. I can say I haven't been let down once. I consistently get hits on target over and over again with this system and it works for me.

Let me land the plane...

According to my the charts I have in Ballistics AE, JBM ballistics, as well as my range finder with the Applied Ballistics Software built in and all verified hits on target, I'm pushing a 143ELD-X at 3180FPS which is 220fps over what Hornady prints on the box (2960) and on their website. I cannot for the life of me understand how my rifle is pushing that fast but no matter how many times I verify at different distances, I'm on target consistently. I have never actually run it through my chronograph but in my opinion the charts and verified yardages are more accurate anyway. Can someone explain this to me?
0E2D9AA5-A7E3-4C15-89E9-FCD53B177DBC.jpeg
 

caiati

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
364
I love this mic drop of a post here... no words, just the reloading data - THANK YOU.

By using this information, if I go into my chart and change the BC from 0.623 to 0.681 as well as my averaged chronograph speed the trajectory is just about dead nuts! I appreciate the help and support from everyone.

Question - why do all of the libraries in the ballistic calculators have the same standard BC listed? I wasn't aware that was just a starting point and I thank those that questioned my BC earlier. I think this solves the case and I can use my chrono speed (which I am going to do again) as well as the new BC to rebuild my charts and move on to verification. Once I verify at different ranges and the point of impact is off, should I be concentrating on adjusting speed or BC or both?
 

338 dude

Well-Known Member
LRH Team Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
2,111
Location
Tn
I love this mic drop of a post here... no words, just the reloading data - THANK YOU.

By using this information, if I go into my chart and change the BC from 0.623 to 0.681 as well as my averaged chronograph speed the trajectory is just about dead nuts! I appreciate the help and support from everyone.

Question - why do all of the libraries in the ballistic calculators have the same standard BC listed? I wasn't aware that was just a starting point and I thank those that questioned my BC earlier. I think this solves the case and I can use my chrono speed (which I am going to do again) as well as the new BC to rebuild my charts and move on to verification. Once I verify at different ranges and the point of impact is off, should I be concentrating on adjusting speed or BC or both?
You could do a target test to make sure your scope is tracking as it should after that I would look for a scope correction factor in your ballistic solver then after that hopefully just a small amount I would adjust velocity if needed
 

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