SCOPE ZERO FOR OVER 1000 YRDS

[LRNut]

What your describing is called "maximum point blank range" & you have described it accurately!

Its a very good way of setting up your rifle for short to meduim range hunting senario's.

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2017/7/17/learn-your-maximum-point-blank-range/

ShootersCalculator.com | Point Blank Range Calculator

Calculates the maximum point blank range of a firearm cartridge fired from a rifle or handgun.

www.shooterscalculator.com

This website illustrates my point exactly. You type in a 10" target and you get this:

Who in their right mind is going to zero 4" high at 100? Yeager is saying he wants his max trajectory ordinate to be 2" high (the 4" circle), which works. Four inches high at 100 means a lot of misses high at ranges you might be a bit rushed and unsteady (140-200).

On the other hand, the American Hunter link you supplied is great - if read to its end. Spomer explains exactly what I am talking about with respect to the assumption these calculators use, which is that bullets all travel in a straight line.

Spomer says reduce a 10 inch target to 8 or 6, which is exactly right if you want the max PBR. But I suspect most hunters/shooters on this site are dialing past 300 anyway (ie, not using the concept of MPBR). Hell, I once dialed for an ibex in Mongolia at 267 yards with a 7mm RM.

 

[Tom Erickson]

I shoot a 28 nosler. I have a 20 moa rail and a swarovski X5I scope sighted in at 100 yards according to the Swarovski app i can shoot out to just ove 1800 yards . I've only shot to 380 so far but would love to go shoot out further and see what my abilities actually are

 

[jasent]

I always zero at 100 but my ELR rifles get enough slope in the rail they are between 10-20" high at 100 depending on the rifle and scope I'm using. They never get shot at less than 1500 yards any way except checking zero. Hunting rifles get 20 moa rail and zero right at 100 yards. I can easily hold for 200 and if they are more than 300 you typically have time to dial. Jmo

 

[Bravo 4]

100 yards, when I'm hunting I can just dial my MPBR or whatever I want and start there. Plus I can walk out my back yard and do it.
To the fella that mentioned .1" @ 100 deviation adding up down range. Are you saying you can distinguish your rifle's precision and accuracy to a certainty of .1 moa out past 100 yards? Cool if you can but I doubt that with 100% reliability. Not calling you out, just throwing that out there for you to ponder. Me personally, I feel my rifle and I more predictable at 100. Plus less chance for any error. Wind as an example, even my .375 Snipetac with a high BC bullet going pretty fast can be blown off that far at 100, exponentially past that.
Also, theoretically if I travel I really shouldn't have to re-zero when having major environmental changes. I do always check it though.

 

[jdavistx]

If it was me, let me simply explain that my comment was with reference to a shooter who seemed to imply 1MOA (1 inch @95.5yards) vs 1.047" @ 100 yards or .47" change @ 1000 yards adds up over distance. So I can't - It is a 100% reliability.
I think it makes literally no difference at distance with so many other variables to consider, like wind. For me, it doesn't matter much what my MPBR is. I used to shoot 3" high at 100 yds (7mm RM) and it works. The reason to test at longer distances is to expose problems where you don't necessarily see them (resolution) and their impact on accuracy at 100 yards. Especially reading wind. My avatar represents my new 7mm RM at 100 yards, Berger 168gr HVLD's @2950 fps MV, 0.308 G7. 5 shots, 1 hole, 0.26MOA. I didn't really learn anything other than I have a good load for the weapon. The further you move out the more problems start to show up which can be addressed if necessary.
I would say "major" environmental changes can make a significant difference depending on range. Change your base parameter model by air density (say a delta of 50˚ and 5,000 feet, etc.) and see what you get. Typical of Arizona vs Colorado, or desert vs mountains. If you're less than 300 yards, MPBR is usually fine depending on the system employed and target. Or if you're a nerd like me, I do a WEZ analysis which takes most major variables into account and gives you probability of a hit on a certain size target at distance.

Either way, each shooter does what works for them. Just one man's opinion. Happy hunting!

 

[Bravo 4]

Yes sir you are 100% right about checking setup at distance. I think it foolish not to, or ignorant-lazy-whatever you care to call it (your choice). Has as much to do with you as it does the rifle/scope/load. What I was saying is that shooting closer (zero) should let you be more exact in evaluating your accuracy and your rifle's precision. Should be easier to "see" that .1" (or moa), it'll be harder the further out you get. And then increase your distance to target.
As far as the environmental changes go, you were making my point even more. If I zero at 100 @ sea level (as I do) and then hunt 8,000+ ft asl, with a 100 yard zero I shouldn't have to worry about that affecting zero which may affect my long range data. The difference in trajectory at 100 when going from 0-8,000 asl probably isn't even real world measurable. The difference in your trajectory in the same scenario at 300 is however, that's what it would be doing to your "zero" and expounding as range to target increases. The precision will still be there but the accuracy may be off...especially if you're worried about that .1" (moa'ish). If I'm shooting medium/moderate ranges, let's say 600 and in, I wouldn't be concerned with the difference. Especially since my intended target if going that high in elevation would be elk. For what I would consider long range and ELR, better have your sheet straight if you know what I mean.

 

[lancetkenyon]

All of my rifles are hunting rifles. But get shot a lot throughout the year. All have a 20MOA rail or milled in Pic.
I use a 200 yard zero for them. Give me point and shoot out to 250+/- depending on cartridge. Good for those still hunting/spot and stock scenarios where you might jump game from 10 to 250 yards. Anything further would be either dial or holdover depending on yardage and/or circumstances. For LR (800-1500), it would be a dial up solution.

 

[Dean2]

All of my hunting rifles are zeroed 3" high at 100 yards. Depending on the cartridge that gives me a zero from 275 to 300 yards and I don't have to fool with scope settings or hold over from 0 to 350-400 yards. With game in close you often don't have time to futz with holdover and twisting dials. Over 400 yards there is usually more time and as long as your drop card is properly built, twisting dials or your hash marks on the reticle are easy to specify.

Target gun, I would zero at 100 and dial from there.

 

[jdavistx]

I think we've lost our way. Not calling anyone out. Topic of this thread was 'Scope zero for over 1000 yds' in ELR hunting and shooting forum.

 

[LRNut]

I think we've lost our way. Not calling anyone out. Topic of this thread was 'Scope zero for over 1000 yds' in ELR hunting and shooting forum.

Well, back to the original topic...the zero itself is really relatively immaterial. The bigger question is "Do you have a place to practice at 1000? Do you know exactly how much to dial up for 1000 by actual shooting? What wind do you feel comfortable with based on actual shooting? Will you be hunting at a different elevation that you have shot at before?" Etc etc.

 

[TheBoctor]

Well, back to the original topic...the zero itself is really relatively immaterial. The bigger question is "Do you have a place to practice at 1000? Do you know exactly how much to dial up for 1000 by actual shooting? What wind do you feel comfortable with based on actual shooting? Will you be hunting at a different elevation that you have shot at before?" Etc etc.

This is another side-track. He asked where everyone zero's guns for 1000+ yd shooting, and the answer is a question about whether he can shoot 1000 yds...

Short answer is zero at 100 yds for any gun you plan on dialing. I remember listening to a podcast that had Brian Litz on and he brought up another good reason for it, which was that in most scoped center-fire rifles, the Max Ordinate is your scope height for shots right around 100 yds. So you're zero'ing at the intersection point of your line-of-sight and your rifles point-of-impact without the bullet starting to fall again. He also mentioned that's why guys shooting 22LR should be zero'ing back at 50 or so yards.

My $.02

 

[Dean2]

This is another side-track. He asked where everyone zero's guns for 1000+ yd shooting, and the answer is a question about whether he can shoot 1000 yds...

Short answer is zero at 100 yds for any gun you plan on dialing. I remember listening to a podcast that had Brian Litz on and he brought up another good reason for it, which was that in most scoped center-fire rifles, the Max Ordinate is your scope height for shots right around 100 yds. So you're zero'ing at the intersection point of your line-of-sight and your rifles point-of-impact without the bullet starting to fall again. He also mentioned that's why guys shooting 22LR should be zero'ing back at 50 or so yards.

My $.02

To help clarify, most rifles cross the line of sight first at 22 to 28 yards, depending on cartridge. It re-crosses the line of sight at x distance further out, but usually further out than 100 yards. I think this might have been what you were trying to say but it wasn't real clear, at least to me. Hope this helps.

That however doesn't change my opinion that for a hunting rifle 3 high at 100 is a very good all round starting point. I do not want to have to dial a hunting rifle to shoot to 300 or 350 yards.

 

[LRNut]

This is another side-track. He asked where everyone zero's guns for 1000+ yd shooting, and the answer is a question about whether he can shoot 1000 yds...

Short answer is zero at 100 yds for any gun you plan on dialing. I remember listening to a podcast that had Brian Litz on and he brought up another good reason for it, which was that in most scoped center-fire rifles, the Max Ordinate is your scope height for shots right around 100 yds. So you're zero'ing at the intersection point of your line-of-sight and your rifles point-of-impact without the bullet starting to fall again. He also mentioned that's why guys shooting 22LR should be zero'ing back at 50 or so yards.

My $.02

Well, the questions I posed are certainly more important than at what range you zero. The OP has access to longer ranges, but a lot of folks do not.

Like I said, I zero at 500 on calm days to minimize spin drift. Zeroing at 100 doesn't do that. You want to shoot at 1000? Better have an answer for spin drift, especially if your RF or app doesn't calculate it. I then dial down from there so that when I am hunting I have a 200 yard zero. Does anyone really hunt with a 100 yard dead on zero? Hell, I even zero my .416 Rem Mag at 200 when hunting Cape buff, elephants, etc.

I certainly don't follow the logic you cited with respect to Bryan Litz. Not sure why that is a rational explanation for zeroing at 100.

 

[Rum Man]

My 338 edges is set up at 100 zero , it has a 55 moa Nightforce base and a Valdada 200 min adj.base . They way it's set up I have just about 325 min. Of Elevation to play with .
So far I have only been out to 3027 yards with it .

Rum Man