Savage patterning like a shotgun

[alaskan9974]

I have a 110LRH I bought in .338LM I bought just to get into the caliber. I am having a hard time with consistency, the rifle has a few hundred rounds through it.

I had a decent load I worked up this fall (40-50f temps) that would shoot 3/4 moa consistently out to 800. 300gr OTM hybrid bergers on top of 89.7 grains of retumbo inside of Lapua cases with Winchester Mag primers loaded at 3.7"

Took the rifle out this week shots were all over the place. Only major difference is the temp is now down to single digits. First day my best group at 100 yards was an amazingly accurate 1.6".

I figured I was to blame and worked up new loads today and shot off a rest shooting groups of 4. Same thing, one 2.3" group at 89.7gr and 1.4" at 89.3. 250gr SMK's with the same charges are noticeably tighter. Brought my 308 along and it had no trouble whatsoever bugholing groups.

I weigh each charge individually and typically have great results with SD/ES. I have checked everything on the rifle making sure all screws are tight. Does seating depth effect the hybrid bergers to this degree? I did shoot a group that my notes showed delivered moa groups, 91.5 retumbo with the OTM's at 3.681" but even that one measured at roughly 1.5". I posted a pic of one of my targets, you can guess which group are the sierra's.

My chrony is not picking anything up in our flat light, can anyone give me estimates for fps with the 250gr smk's over 89.7gr retumbo in lapua cases with a 26" barrel at 10f?

Does seating depth effect the hybrid bergers to this degree?

 

[bigngreen]

Seating is critical, I don't treat hybrids any different than VLD it anything else for that matter, seating depth is very important IMO!

 

[338 bruce]

Get some strong copper remover and clean the barrel well, worked for me.

 

[Rich Coyle]

Check the scope and base.

 

[elkaholic]

Don't disregard the throat when you clean it. If changing the seating depth, and a good cleaning doesn't correct the problem, then try this. Take a clean patch and soak it with a good carbon solvent. Stick the patch up tightly in the throat area and put a few more drops of the solvent down the bore so the patch is completely saturated. Leave it in for 24 hours or more if you want. Poke the patch out from the muzzle end with a rod and rotate a CLEAN wire brush in the throat. Follow with a clean patch and see if there is any carbon that was removed. Repeat the process until you see no more evidence of carbon. This is an often overlooked problem that can send accuracy south in a hurry when it happens. Often you can see a ring, or partial ring, on the saturated patch that was left in the bore. I have had this happen twice in my life and know of others that I have had it happen.* Make sure you don't use solvents with ammonia* There does not seem to be any pattern to whether or not a rifle develops a ring. I have had rifles that have fired thousands of rounds with no problem and others that have had with 300 or 400 rounds? Good luck.........Rich

 

[Rich Coyle]

Don't disregard the throat when you clean it. If changing the seating depth, and a good cleaning doesn't correct the problem, then try this. Take a clean patch and soak it with a good carbon solvent. Stick the patch up tightly in the throat area and put a few more drops of the solvent down the bore so the patch is completely saturated. Leave it in for 24 hours or more if you want. Poke the patch out from the muzzle end with a rod and rotate a CLEAN wire brush in the throat. Follow with a clean patch and see if there is any carbon that was removed. Repeat the process until you see no more evidence of carbon. This is an often overlooked problem that can send accuracy south in a hurry when it happens. Often you can see a ring, or partial ring, on the saturated patch that was left in the bore. I have had this happen twice in my life and know of others that I have had it happen.* Make sure you don't use solvents with ammonia* There does not seem to be any pattern to whether or not a rifle develops a ring. I have had rifles that have fired thousands of rounds with no problem and others that have had with 300 or 400 rounds? Good luck.........Rich

Have you ever heard of it with a salt bath nitrided barrel?

 

[m4tt]

I had similar accuracy issues with my 110 BA, although mine resulted in almost pure vertical stringing. Sent it back for warranty work to no avail. Tried a variety of bullets, powder weights, seating depths, etc.

I would recommend checking the paint on the wedges where the action sits in the AccuStock, and also on the action. It turned out that on my 110 BA, the action was pushing down into the wedges unevenly - easily seen in wear marks in the paint after assembling/dissasembling it and firing a couple hundred rounds - I think exacerbated by the upward facing ports on the muzzle brake causing the action to push down on the front. I wound up bedding my stock in Devcon and now it shoots amazing.

 

[elkaholic]

Have you ever heard of it with a salt bath nitrided barrel?

I have not but it has not been around that long either.

 

[toddc]

Usually if a Savage with big shell goes south I look at action screw torque. The process is well outlined on Savageshooters.com. Also I wouldn't rely on anything other than REAL bedding with a 338 class gun. Might be fine on a 223 but a Lapua isn't a 223.

 

[alaskan9974]

Usually if a Savage with big shell goes south I look at action screw torque. The process is well outlined on Savageshooters.com. Also I wouldn't rely on anything other than REAL bedding with a 338 class gun. Might be fine on a 223 but a Lapua isn't a 223.

Thanks, I checked all bolts on it earlier, they are all tight. I will take the stock off and check for rubbing as another had suggested.

I had previously loaded to 3.71" but they were getting smashed from recoil in the mag so I keep them at 3.68" and under. I will check remaining rounds next time to see how they are holding up. I use this rifle for hunting and have taken several critters already so I will play with tighter crimps if need be. I am getting bug hole groups with the 250gr sierra's, but I am also seating them to 3.66" What bugs me is it was shooting these berger's just fine this fall. I tossed the remaining pound of powder I used in those loads as well as the primers.

When I first got the rifle I checked the barrel, towards the end about 5 inches from the crown, there are some rough spots inside, but since it shot .75" @ 100 out of the box with S&B loads I didn't think much of it. I will try to post a decent picture. I had read of other's getting barrels like this but savage not doing anything about it since it was still under 1moa at 100 yards. Thanks for all the tips, if anything I will sell this rifle and get something of a higher quality.

I use a lyman seating die, what is a better one to use specifically for the vld's?

 

[Rich Coyle]

Before you sell it you might try fire lapping. Dave Tubb has a kit. Every firearm I did it to was better. One even gained about 35 feet per second. They were all easier to clean.

 

[toddc]

Tight isn't going to cut it. They need to be tightened in a specific sequence with exact torque values. Different guns even respond better to slightly different torque values. You need an in-lb torque wrench and follow the specs exactly.

 

[Kansaswoodguy]

Try cleaning it with KG-12 copper remover if that works you might try the David Tubb fire lapping bullets as already stated they helped me on a horably fouling Rugar Barrel.

 

[alaskan9974]

I cleaned the rifle thoroughly, and torqued the bolts according to spec. Did a ladder test from 87 to 93gr with retumbo today. Best group was still only 1.1" at 100 yards.

Can excessive jump with the hybrid bergers be the cause? I use this rifle for hunting so do not want to go over mag length, consequently they are jumping .138". If I stretch them out just shy of the mag lips, I can reduce it to .105" however that still seems rather excessive. My 250 SMK's I am loading at 3.68 only jump .020"