Can you say "muzzle flash" ? A couple drops of oil on a cleaning swab pellet means that the next pellet will leave a trail like Halley's Comet ! This 1980's "small bore" destroys my sprung plate target trap. The Europeans take pneumatics seriously ! While 600 f.p.s. might have match accuracy, 900 means that you can take down small game with a "through and through" single shot of a pointed triple skirt load. Crazy, right ? My "parts" guy thought he missed his rabbit completely when it did not even flinch from a round that went skull to eye socket. This kind of velocity means that you can can take down most birds and rodents without leaving wounded "runaways" 10 lbs. ,full Monte Carlo stock, interchangeable front, Rear sight adjusts for wind. and el. Are you a fan yet ?
RWS "Dianawerks" West German .177 900 f.p.s.
- Thread starter videlli63
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I have one, too.
That's interesting. I wonder if that explains some "misses" in my back yard on rabbits I thought for sure I had hit in the heart-lung area.
That's interesting. I wonder if that explains some "misses" in my back yard on rabbits I thought for sure I had hit in the heart-lung area.
Teh Wicked
Active Member
I have a Gamo Whisper that shoots the leightweight ammo at almost 1200fps, on average it goes 1140-1150.
But mostly I use the heavier stuff to keep it quiet, but it still moves around 945.
But mostly I use the heavier stuff to keep it quiet, but it still moves around 945.
FAL Shot
Well-Known Member
The old breakbarrel airguns can wreck a good scope in no time due to double recoil, they weigh too much for their limited power, they have no repeating capability, and they can be damaged by shooting pellets too light or too heavy. They need a specific pellet weight to be "tuned" and develop max power, which is still very low compared to modern PCP air rifles.
I never liked breakbarrel air rifles. My old Sheridan .20 cal pump-up loaded with H&N Baracuda pellets will outshoot any breakbarrel air rifle I ever saw. I shoot 0.5" groups, 5-shot, at 50 yards all day long with my BSA Lonestar .25 cal. It has match trigger of about 1.5-2 pounds, and a match barrel. ALL BSA PCP air rifles have match grade barrels and triggers.
Don't know why people believe Gamo and RWS air rifles are all that great.
The best air rifles come from England and Sweden. The German Weihrauch PCP air rifle is made in Sweden by FX, so it's not German. The CZ PCP air rifle is made in England by Air Arms, so it's not Czech. The Russians have some seriously good new air rifles, and one of them is a high power bullpup design by EDgun. The Swedes build the semi-automatics such as FX Monsoon. The English and Swedes also build the only handpumps really worth having. The Chinese pumps break a lot and might not get a BSA or FX rifle up to full power. My BSA is twice as powerful as the heaviest magnum breakbarrel air rifle you can name, and it weighs a lot less.
And it's prettier.
And the new Benjamin Marauder PCP rifle made in New York State will outshoot any German or Spanish (Gamo) breakbarrel air rifle you can name. It is a licensed English Theoben design.
If you think the Gamo PCP rifle is good......that's because it's made in England by BSA, not because it has Gamo branded on it.
Also, NOBODY with a premium PCP air rifle and any sense shoots lightweight pellets. They are notoriously inaccurate and loose energy very soon. The heavy H&N Baracuda pellet is still King of the hunt, but the JSB Exact is barking on its heels. They are both heavy hunting pellets. I have seen the Gamo advertisement where a pig is shot in the head with a lightweight pellet, and among knowledgeable airgun hunters, it is laughable.
Bring your lightweight .177 cal megaspeed pellets out to Montana and I'll grab my "slow" .25 cal Baracuda pellets and I'll take you prairie dog hunting where we shoot out to 100 yards and each person will get $10 from the other person for every prairie dog that he kills.
I might loan you gas money to get back home on.
Gamo has sold a lot of air rifles to the unwitting with their marketing BS, but truth is, almost every knowledgeable serious airgunner uses something else besides a Gamo, especially in England and Sweden where they know and build GOOD air rifles. Even the South Korean PCP rifles are superior to any breakbarrel (Evanix, etc.).
I owned a Crosman Nitro Piston .22 cal breakbarrel, and they basically make obsolete any spring powered breakbarrel or sidecocker/underlever. Sold it in a few months as it was nowhere near as accurate as the BSA and it still kicked hard enough to cause scope mount shifting and it had 1/3 the power of the BSA PCP. The old Sheridan Blue Streak that has thousand of pellets through it whipped it soundly in a shooting match, and now that a decent scope mount is available for the Blue Streaks and Benjamin 392's (now the same rifles except for caliber), they are the "go to" rifles if you don't need big power and have to stay below $200 for an air rifle and need accuracy and power control (squirrels in the attic, etc.). I'll never get rid of my old Blue Streak, and it's made in Racine, Wisconsin, before Crosman bought out Bemjamin/Sheridan. Suggest you look at the old ones with all metal construction and solid walnut stocks. Crosman cheapened the construction considerably, but they are still better shooters than breakbarrels. Brass airgun barrels are virtually immune from rust, which is a bigger problem than wear in PCP's.
Also, a .25 cal air rifle has a kill zone 3 times bigger than a .177 cal air rifle, which also helps with long range airgunning. The South Koreans build airguns up to .50 cal as they are not allowed to own firearms and must do their hunting with air rifles. The Career Dragon Slayer is one such rifle.
ALSO.....causing detonation in a springer will eventually damage it. Those who apply oil to their pellets to achieve detonation destroy accuracy and eventually damage their springer rifles. Nobody with any sense treats their springer in this fashion. If they wanted power, they would have bought a PCP and gotten more accuracy as well.....and a lighter carry weight.....and kinder to their scope.
Never get your air rifle advice from a "firearms expert", as air rifles are in some ways opposite of firearms. Springers are not, Not, NOT like PCP air rifles. They take different lubricants and different maintenance techniques. I have yet to find one single salesman in the Billings area that works behind a firearms counter that is fully up on air rifles, even the ones who think they know something about them. Those who have not owned the latest Swedish and English PCP rifles have no business giving you any advice in what is state-of-the-art in air rifles. A salesman who was competent would WARN you about the Gamo marketing BS regarding supersonic and too lightweight pellets that are made to sell instead of made to hunt. I saw not one tin of JSB Exact or H&N Baracuda or Crosman Premier (in the padded cardboard box) pellets in any of the Billings stores, and almost all the international air rifle competitions are won with those 3 brands of pellets. They are what I hunt with, having grown up on Benjamin/Sheridan/Crosman.....and god forbid......Daisy pellets. I only saw a Benjamin Discovery PCP rifle in one store, and then only in .177 caliber, which is the last thing you would hunt with in my area. .177 is for target competition in low powered rifles or for kids to plink with. Or English/European dudes strapped to 12 FPE because they don't want to get a firearms certificate to own a powerful air rifle of bigger bore. At 12 FPE, the .177 cal is the only thing with any speed due to the low weight. Has no relationship to American or Russian conditions where air rifle power in unrestricted. Russian dudes like the bullpup design because they carry them in their cars and shoot varmints in the city from their cars while they are stopped in traffic or just whenever the opportunity exists. This is why EDgun makes a poweful bullpup PCP air rifle. It would be hard to find a Russian dude stupid enough to buy an expensive .177 cal PCP rifle to hunt with.
I never liked breakbarrel air rifles. My old Sheridan .20 cal pump-up loaded with H&N Baracuda pellets will outshoot any breakbarrel air rifle I ever saw. I shoot 0.5" groups, 5-shot, at 50 yards all day long with my BSA Lonestar .25 cal. It has match trigger of about 1.5-2 pounds, and a match barrel. ALL BSA PCP air rifles have match grade barrels and triggers.
Don't know why people believe Gamo and RWS air rifles are all that great.
The best air rifles come from England and Sweden. The German Weihrauch PCP air rifle is made in Sweden by FX, so it's not German. The CZ PCP air rifle is made in England by Air Arms, so it's not Czech. The Russians have some seriously good new air rifles, and one of them is a high power bullpup design by EDgun. The Swedes build the semi-automatics such as FX Monsoon. The English and Swedes also build the only handpumps really worth having. The Chinese pumps break a lot and might not get a BSA or FX rifle up to full power. My BSA is twice as powerful as the heaviest magnum breakbarrel air rifle you can name, and it weighs a lot less.
And it's prettier.
And the new Benjamin Marauder PCP rifle made in New York State will outshoot any German or Spanish (Gamo) breakbarrel air rifle you can name. It is a licensed English Theoben design.
If you think the Gamo PCP rifle is good......that's because it's made in England by BSA, not because it has Gamo branded on it.
Also, NOBODY with a premium PCP air rifle and any sense shoots lightweight pellets. They are notoriously inaccurate and loose energy very soon. The heavy H&N Baracuda pellet is still King of the hunt, but the JSB Exact is barking on its heels. They are both heavy hunting pellets. I have seen the Gamo advertisement where a pig is shot in the head with a lightweight pellet, and among knowledgeable airgun hunters, it is laughable.
Bring your lightweight .177 cal megaspeed pellets out to Montana and I'll grab my "slow" .25 cal Baracuda pellets and I'll take you prairie dog hunting where we shoot out to 100 yards and each person will get $10 from the other person for every prairie dog that he kills.
I might loan you gas money to get back home on.
Gamo has sold a lot of air rifles to the unwitting with their marketing BS, but truth is, almost every knowledgeable serious airgunner uses something else besides a Gamo, especially in England and Sweden where they know and build GOOD air rifles. Even the South Korean PCP rifles are superior to any breakbarrel (Evanix, etc.).
I owned a Crosman Nitro Piston .22 cal breakbarrel, and they basically make obsolete any spring powered breakbarrel or sidecocker/underlever. Sold it in a few months as it was nowhere near as accurate as the BSA and it still kicked hard enough to cause scope mount shifting and it had 1/3 the power of the BSA PCP. The old Sheridan Blue Streak that has thousand of pellets through it whipped it soundly in a shooting match, and now that a decent scope mount is available for the Blue Streaks and Benjamin 392's (now the same rifles except for caliber), they are the "go to" rifles if you don't need big power and have to stay below $200 for an air rifle and need accuracy and power control (squirrels in the attic, etc.). I'll never get rid of my old Blue Streak, and it's made in Racine, Wisconsin, before Crosman bought out Bemjamin/Sheridan. Suggest you look at the old ones with all metal construction and solid walnut stocks. Crosman cheapened the construction considerably, but they are still better shooters than breakbarrels. Brass airgun barrels are virtually immune from rust, which is a bigger problem than wear in PCP's.
Also, a .25 cal air rifle has a kill zone 3 times bigger than a .177 cal air rifle, which also helps with long range airgunning. The South Koreans build airguns up to .50 cal as they are not allowed to own firearms and must do their hunting with air rifles. The Career Dragon Slayer is one such rifle.
ALSO.....causing detonation in a springer will eventually damage it. Those who apply oil to their pellets to achieve detonation destroy accuracy and eventually damage their springer rifles. Nobody with any sense treats their springer in this fashion. If they wanted power, they would have bought a PCP and gotten more accuracy as well.....and a lighter carry weight.....and kinder to their scope.
Never get your air rifle advice from a "firearms expert", as air rifles are in some ways opposite of firearms. Springers are not, Not, NOT like PCP air rifles. They take different lubricants and different maintenance techniques. I have yet to find one single salesman in the Billings area that works behind a firearms counter that is fully up on air rifles, even the ones who think they know something about them. Those who have not owned the latest Swedish and English PCP rifles have no business giving you any advice in what is state-of-the-art in air rifles. A salesman who was competent would WARN you about the Gamo marketing BS regarding supersonic and too lightweight pellets that are made to sell instead of made to hunt. I saw not one tin of JSB Exact or H&N Baracuda or Crosman Premier (in the padded cardboard box) pellets in any of the Billings stores, and almost all the international air rifle competitions are won with those 3 brands of pellets. They are what I hunt with, having grown up on Benjamin/Sheridan/Crosman.....and god forbid......Daisy pellets. I only saw a Benjamin Discovery PCP rifle in one store, and then only in .177 caliber, which is the last thing you would hunt with in my area. .177 is for target competition in low powered rifles or for kids to plink with. Or English/European dudes strapped to 12 FPE because they don't want to get a firearms certificate to own a powerful air rifle of bigger bore. At 12 FPE, the .177 cal is the only thing with any speed due to the low weight. Has no relationship to American or Russian conditions where air rifle power in unrestricted. Russian dudes like the bullpup design because they carry them in their cars and shoot varmints in the city from their cars while they are stopped in traffic or just whenever the opportunity exists. This is why EDgun makes a poweful bullpup PCP air rifle. It would be hard to find a Russian dude stupid enough to buy an expensive .177 cal PCP rifle to hunt with.
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