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Discussion in 'Equipment Discussions' started by No Fear in Accuracy, Sep 17, 2002.
[ 10-01-2002: Message edited by: Me? 300 Tomahawk ]
Thank you for an interesting read. You have just made 99% of the guys on this board green with envy.
Good luck with your hunting.
Was this one of Darryl's units? did you have any trouble getting across the border? What was the price?
Bought myself a Wild this year and have really enjoyed using it. Because I can now range, I did some shooting to my goal for the year...1 mile.
Unfortunately, the terrain did not allow me to shoot to 1 mile, instead I settled for 1800m (1960yds). I doubt I will hunt at that range but for plinking, no problem.
I used my 300Wby and 155gr Amax bullets. Flight time was a little long but accuracy is definitely enough. When the wind was still, it was no problem dropping the bullets into a 2 ft area. When the wind did gust, some must have blown more then several feet as their impact could not be seen.
Unless I had an area that I could flag, I would be concerned about wind causing a miss on game. I am sure that more practise and a better combo would reduce the drift. Working on my 300 RUM and 240gr Mk this fall.
Good luck with your shooting...
Thanks for the review. How many firings are you getting before recharging the battery? I wonder if you have access to a YP1000 and Lieca 1200 for a side by side comparison to 1400yds or so in early morning, daytime and late evening conditions? This would help the guy that has to wait for a while to get a better idea how accurate and consistant the two most commonly used LR finders the LR hunter on a budget is currently using.
Also the huge value of a pocket LRF for use to around 1000 yards cannot be denied. Past 500 yards or so distance is so easily misjudged. If their is a handheld model accurate to around 1000 yards, it should be eatablished which one has the best capability for the task at hand, and you could be the man to do just this.
I have a YP1000 availible to you for testing, maybe someone else has the other models for simultanious testing also. Just email me. Appreciate your time and input on this.
Love the pictures.
With a full charge, you will get 300 firings with a fresh battery.
The comparison would be VERY lopsided in favor of the Russian which WILL range in ANY condition you care to try it in. Sun or shade will give the SAME reading EVERYTIME.
Awesome review of the Russina LRF, I know I am green with envy. Amazing!!!
I have the new Leica 1200 and I can tell you right now it won't even do anything near the Russian unit. I can range on Mule deer to approximately 600 yards but the unit will range out to 1200 yards on 6' patches of trees without a tripod, at that range it takes about 5 pushes of the button to get a reading. But I can get instant readings out to 900 yards using small trees. Off of waist high sage brush I can range to about 750 yards. It is an awesome handheld unit but will never measure up to the Russian unit.
I used to have a Bush Yardage pro 1000 but replaced it with the Leica, the Leica blows the Bushnell out of the water.
From what I have seen than the Leica consistantly returns accurate ranges, The "approximately 600 yards" meant that sometimes I can't get a reading at 600 yards on a Mulie, but sometimes I can get a reading farther than 600 yards depends on the environmental conditions but it will return the same range time after time when I do get a reading.
I wish the Leica's laser was more powerful too.
Uhh Jerry ...... a mile is 1760 yards.
Pete, you are right. I was a little aprehensive of reaching 1 mile let alone 1800m. Just a little bit of scarcasm.
It was sure a great feeling to pull the trigger and seeing the puff of dust at 1800m. With the right equipment, "any" range is possible...almost.
Hope to do some LR hunting at the beg. of Oct. have a couple of spots that you can shoot to around 1000yds. Have seen bucks in these two areas so hope to get a shot at one.
Let's get a non-eye safe laser and go blind some people!!!
This last message highlights why russian military surplus laser rangefinders are illegal to import and own in the US. Oh, by the way that is confirmed now and not subject to debate contrary to what your legal advisor/board experts are telling you. Yes, the FDA is actively looking for the importers and dealers as we speak and they have been to this website and downloaded information. I got turned into the FDA for mentioning that I had seen them for sale by a US military laser mftr rep at a base military expo. He gave them my name and number and this website address after I asked him about importing russian rangefinders and we discussed LR hunting and this website. The FDA compliance officer called me 3 days later, as a military base safety director and wanted to know exactly where I saw these items for sale. They have also pulled one off Ebay about 3 wks ago. The US military had to sign a special authorization letter with the FDA stating that they would never sell theirs as surplus. Now if the US can never sell theirs with all the mftr controls etc on them and how in the world can anyone think that the russian counterparts are legal?
I caught hell recently from all the "board experts" when I stated that people using these rangefinders did not really understand what "not eyesafe" meant, how dangerous they were, that being able to push the button did not equate to knowledge and that they were illegal. I was told by the board experts that they knew it all, they knew how to use them, how to really read the Code of Federal regulations, how they used lasers 30 years ago and how they knew they were legal because they had them. Hope your legal advisor is real good and licensed for Federal Court, when they come knocking at your door.
Here we have someone who took a "not eyesafe" laser, pushed the button and lased a boat with people on it. Someone could have permanently been blinded. Not only was a non-eyesafe laser aimed directly at people, it was over water. A wave can reflect the laser beam off at an angle into someone else off to the side or up into the air. A laser beam WILL reflect of highly reflective objects such as glass, water and gloss paint. Then we lased a point of land with people on it with no concern for their safety. These acts were the same as firing a rifle bullet across the water at a boat or point of land with no regard for where it skipped to, who it hit and what happened. Better pray that no one got hurt and they cannot track it back to you. I realize it was done out of ignorance of the real danger rather than criminal intent. But that is the real danger of these items.
I would say this one story highlights just about every dangerous act you could do with military grade laser. Only thing missing is lasing moving cars going down the highway or shooting at a jetliner. That is why the general public cannot have these items and the quicker they are confiscated, the safer the rest of us will be. Now you know why the military has extensive training on use of these items and not everyone has access to them. My advice, go spend $3000 on something that is illegal and is going to be confiscated when they find it!!
You have a lot of people against the idea of LR hunting anyway and this incident and disregard for human safety justifies every negative thing that they think and say!!!
This post is for information only and not to start another debate. You do what you want and what your attorney says you can afford.
To answer your questions.
1. Military and vehicles have protective eyewear and coatings (Thorium-232) on optics to protect from non eyesafe lasers. When you see a picture of a SOF guy wearing what looks like Oakleys, they really are laser/infrared protective lenses. Finally it is combat! Idea is to kill or wound. Do not think that rule applies to the general public where you are. For your information several US pilots were hit in the eyes with lasers suspected of being fired from Russian vehicles and planes. Lasers are being used to ID vehicles by size, type, etc by using lasers that measure the vibrations coming off the iengines. Can even run an engine diagnostics on that engine. Later they can pick that one vehicle out of a whole row of similar vehicles due to its unique laser signature. Star Wars is here now!
2. Just because you have not heard of an accident does not mean they do not happen. Why in the world would anyone even think that they are on the military notification list for accidents anyway. The military have had too many "accidents" with lasers and eyes have been lost. The general public is not privy to that accident data as is it "for official use only" under federal law and DOD guidelines. The Army has a field manual FM 8-50, Prevention and Medical Management of Laser Injuries. DOD has published the MIL-HDBK-828A, DOD Handbook Laser Safety on Ranges and In Other Outdoor Settings (1/2 inch thick) They do not go to the expense and time of writing and printing this for something that never happens or is not dangerous. That is also why the stringent controls on mftr, marking, instructions, use, training for lasers and types of ranges they even be used on. They cannot be used on regular ranges normally unless the area is swept for all removal of all reflective items and it meets rigid safety guidelines. Bodies of water automatically exclude laser use for training. They can only be used for training inside "restricted airspace" areas due to the danger to pilots in aircraft from reflected beams.
3. It is obvious you did not know water was reflective and your statement about knowing what you were doing shows this. Unless you have physically inspected the target area for reflective items you are taking a crap shoot with someone else's eyes every time you push that button. Not to mention you lased a boat with people on it. You are dealing with something you know absolutely none of the required training, safe usage rules etc. In absence of this training and knowledge "you think you know what you are doing", but ignorance is bliss. That does not mean you are stupid, you just do now fully know what the ramifications are of using and how to use this type device safely.
4. The military training course for laser safety is one week long minimum depending on type of lasers used. Just how did you accumulate all the knowledge that this course teaches?
5. I see you are in Canada, do not know about Canada's rules, but in the US, they are illegal to import, distribute, sell and own. The FDA is now tracking the importers and going after them. So any US owner can decide to "take their chances" or try to get their money back.
6. The models of lasers legally sold to the public are class 1. You are right, they are not as powerful as the military class 3, nor as dangerous. Like anything else, as technology gets better and cheaper we will have a class 1 that can accurately lase deer size targets out to 2000 yards in a couple years. Look at the advancements the last couple of years.
7. If you or anyone else wants to continue to use these things, get with an attorney that can represent you in Federal Court or in a civil case if you are sued and an insurance agent. Find out how much it will cost to defend you and get a good personal liability policy that will cover you specifically for use with a military laser. Otherwise have deep pockets.