RL-17 worth it or not?

[DartonJager]

I have received much appreciated excellent advice from members here on powder selection for reloading for my brand new 300 WSM. The powder I chose was RL-17, but if it is as temperature sensitive as is claimed, is it a wise choice? ESPECIALLY considering this rifle will be used first and foremost for hunting.

I ask because I'm going shooting tomorrow and are going to reload my rounds later today, as I've already prepped my brass and I plan on shooting year round and have no desire what so ever to adjust my reloads for warmer weather shooting (above 75*) if and when I develop a satisfactory reload using RL-17. If I'm going to exclude RL-17 I will have to choose one of the fallowing powders I have on hand: H4831, H1000, IMR4350, IMR7828, or buy some N550. Powders like Magpro or H4350 simply are never available OTC, least haven't for a long, long time.

Tomorrows high is predicted to be in the high 70*'s so it will be worm enough to possibly cause a rise in pressure/temp in my reloads more so if RL-17 is as sensitive as claimed. I plan on reloading with another of my powders on hand as a test to prove or disprove for myself if RL-17 is more affected by temp VS a powder like IMR4350 or H4831.

Thanks,
DJager/Art.

 

[ohiohunter]

I think you answered your own question.

 

[g0rd0]

rl 17 will work in the magnum cases but really? IMR3031 will also work in the magnum cases but really?
In the magnums stick with slower burning powders like IMR7828, RL25, H1000. Choose powders with the same aprox burn rate as those 3 and you will do fine.
I load for a 7rm and my go to is IMR7828 then RL25 and if need be RL22. When I see the 7828 on the shelf I stock up

 

[Barrelnut]

rl 17 will work in the magnum cases but really? IMR3031 will also work in the magnum cases but really?
In the magnums stick with slower burning powders like IMR7828, RL25, H1000. Choose powders with the same aprox burn rate as those 3 and you will do fine.
I load for a 7rm and my go to is IMR7828 then RL25 and if need be RL22. When I see the 7828 on the shelf I stock up

g0, OP is talking about 300 Short Magnum. The short magnums do better with faster powders than more traditional long cartridge magnums like the regular 300 Winchester Magnum.

Alliant developed RL 17 specifically for the 300 WSM. RL 17 is about the same burn rate as H4350, another great WSM powder. Slower powders like H1000 and RL 25 are to slow and bulky foe the WSM cases. As a matter of fact Hodgdon doesn't even list load data for things like H1000 and 300 WSM.

 

[Barrelnut]

DJ,

I shoot 300 WSM. I just installed a 26" 300 WSM bull barrel on a Savage Model 12 a few days ago and will be working up loads for some long range shooting in the desert next month. Will most likely use H4350 as I am lucky enough to have some. I also have some RL17 that would be my next choice.

I have tested these two powders for temp sensitivity before and found RL 17 to be, without doubt temp sensitive.

Here is how you can test RL 17 against H4831. It is always good to test and confirm things like this yourself due to the wide opinions presented in most forums.

1) Harbor Freight sells very inexpensive laser temp sensor guns. Get one. Use one of their 20% coupons and get it for next to nothing.

2) The 70% day you have coming up is a good enough day to test.

3) Create 6 loads each with RL 17 and H4831.

4) Place 3 loads of each powder, in the freezer all night in a sandwich bag.

5) On shooting day put the frozen rounds on a cooler in ice.

6) At the range allow the other rounds to get to ambient temp. Verify their temps with the laser temp sensor.

7) Fire the ambient temp rounds in groups of three. Don't let any of the rounds set in the chamber more than a few seconds and allow some cool down time between shots. Record temp of the round right before it goes in the chamber and the corresponding velocity when shot.

8) Now do the same with the rounds from the cooler. Bring them out of the cooler get the temp, load and shoot, don't diddle around.

9) Compare all of this and get the averages. You will probably find the the RL 17 changes about .5 to .75 FPS per degree temp change and the H4831 doesn't change at all.

What everyone is getting at about RL 17 is that it would be better to find your max load on the hottest days you expect to shoot. Maybe 90% or so. Then you can use the data gathered to adjust your drops with RL 17, as the temp changes in the fall. I use the Shooter app and it allows me to enter info about the powders temp. For RL 17, I put in that it changes about .5% FPS per degree in temp change and that works for me.

Also, if you work up a max load with RL 17 on a 30% degree day and shoot it on a 95% day. There might be a surprising pressure change, especially if you were at or beyond a max load. Not saying the gun will blow up, but recoil might be suddenly harsher, shiny brass heads, your groups open up, and the brass is harder to extract, etc.

Some have reported that RL 17 doesn't show much pressure during work up and folks keep pushing it higher and then suddenly they are way over pressure. This has been attributed to the fact that RL 17 has a looong pressure curve compared to powders like H4350 and H4831 which have a short spike in pressure. That long pressure curve is what gives RL 17 it's nice speed increases over other powders, and it may well be what causes it to suddenly show pressure.

 

[Laelkhunter]

What distance do you anticipate your shots will be while hunting? From what I have read, if you are shooting under 300 yards, the difference in the loads between cold and warm temps shouldn't matter too much. I could be wrong.

 

[DartonJager]

Barrelnut, thank you for the how to directions on testing ammo for temp issues will do precisely that.

LAelkhunter,
I am hoping to develop the skills needed to be deadly proficient in taking elk, deer and antelope out to 500-600 yards, but that remains to be seen.

Truth be told I am not at all concerned about temperature affects on my ammo while hunting because the warmest temps I can recall ever hunting in were still in the 40*'s, elk MUCH colder. My concern about temp is centered on it's affects during load development, and consequently my load development will suffer accordingly.

Again,
Thanks for the help.

 

[gohring3006]

All you can do is try it.
I had a RL 17 6.5 Creedmoor load fall apart when the temp dipped below 40 degrees, that with a load worked up with the temp in the 80s.
But I have a 30-06 208 ELD load that I worked up the same day I did the 6.5 creed and its stabile. It didint significantly change when going from last summer and shooting all winter. I just clocked that load this past weekend and it's the same, no change with the temp back up in the 80s.
I suspect that case capacity may play a role.it seems RL 17 is less temp sensitive when you get so much powder in the case, that it burns so hot the sensitivity goes away..

Edited to add...
With all the doubt that RL 17 put in my mind with the Creedmoor, it all goes away with the 30-06 and 208 ELD. It shoots extremely tight and very low ES and SD with a impressive velocity. I don't see anyone convincing me that it's not good powder when applied in the appropriate cartridge..

 

[DartonJager]

All you can do is try it.
I had a RL 17 6.5 Creedmoor load fall apart when the temp dipped below 40 degrees, that with a load worked up with the temp in the 80s.
But I have a 30-06 208 ELD load that I worked up the same day I did the 6.5 creed and its stabile. It didint significantly change when going from last summer and shooting all winter. I just clocked that load this past weekend and it's the same, no change with the temp back up in the 80s.
I suspect that case capacity may play a role.it seems RL 17 is less temp sensitive when you get so much powder in the case, that it burns so hot the sensitivity goes away..

Edited to add...
With all the doubt that RL 17 put in my mind with the Creedmoor, it all goes away with the 30-06 and 208 ELD. It shoots extremely tight and very low ES and SD with a impressive velocity. I don't see anyone convincing me that it's not good powder when applied in the appropriate cartridge..[/Q

Have you given any thought to the possible existence of a ratio of amount of RL-17 used to the percent of case fill to achieve reasonable temperature stability?

For example how many grains of RL-17 did you use in your 30/06 and what % of case capacity was it?

Right now all of my 300wsm loads are over 62 grains and 93-95% case fill.

 

[gohring3006]

All you can do is try it.
I had a RL 17 6.5 Creedmoor load fall apart when the temp dipped below 40 degrees, that with a load worked up with the temp in the 80s.
But I have a 30-06 208 ELD load that I worked up the same day I did the 6.5 creed and its stabile. It didint significantly change when going from last summer and shooting all winter. I just clocked that load this past weekend and it's the same, no change with the temp back up in the 80s.
I suspect that case capacity may play a role.it seems RL 17 is less temp sensitive when you get so much powder in the case, that it burns so hot the sensitivity goes away..

Edited to add...
With all the doubt that RL 17 put in my mind with the Creedmoor, it all goes away with the 30-06 and 208 ELD. It shoots extremely tight and very low ES and SD with a impressive velocity. I don't see anyone convincing me that it's not good powder when applied in the appropriate cartridge..[/Q

Have you given any thought to the possible existence of a ratio of amount of RL-17 used to the percent of case fill to achieve reasonable temperature stability?

For example how many grains of RL-17 did you use in your 30/06 and what % of case capacity was it?

Right now all of my 300wsm loads are over 62 grains and 93-95% case fill.

No I haven't, but that's a good idea... I personally think that anything over 50 grains is worth a shot in 30-06 based cartridges. The WSM and RL 17 are known to be good combos. I am pretty confident you'll find a stabile load.

 

[DartonJager]

My first loadings using RL-17 I was up to 90+ fps over what my manuals predicted, well over 3100fps/mv W/180NBT and I was over 90% fill for all three reloads. So I will do the test suggested by barrelnut to check for temp affects. None of the reloads I shot that day were over book max, one was .5 below and still over 3100fps/mv for all 9 shots.

Thanks for the input.
DJager/Art.

 

[jimbires]

I use RL17 in my one 7mm-08 . I shoot it year round , and don't seem to have any temp problems . it's a compressed load , 49.0 grains . I've been going to check for temp changes in winter vs. summer shooting but I haven't . this is the only rifle I use RL17 in , I just don't see the problems other guys talk about .

 

[memtb]

I hear lots of talk about, RL 17 temperature sensitivity, but it doesn't seem to be so in my application. Perhaps the theory of larger volumes of powder reducing sensitivity may be the answer. I do load developement, and have for many years, on the hottest of days (90+ F). As I don't want a pressure problem to surprise me on a hot day!

I use RL 17 in my .375 AI, pushing a Barnes 250 TTSX. It is a slightly compressed load, developed on a hot day. For my cold test, I picked a day where the days high was a -3 F. The rifle and cartridges were left outside for a couple of hours prior to shooting. I actually averaged 8 fps higher on the cold day test! I would call the 8fps an insignificant difference.

So, at least for me, the RL 17 works just fine. Great velocities, good to great accuracy..... What's not to like!! memtb

 

[Barrelnut]

Link below is to a LRH post about RL17. The chart was created by some Canadian gun blogger or something... Anyway this chart has made the rounds on SnipersHide, LRH, etc. Seems the guy took a freezer and an oven to the range to get the data.

I personally did the cooler test, I outlined above, with RL17 and H4350 and found RL17 to be quite temp sensitive. But, I used a 6.5 Creedmoor for the test. Notice in the chart the guy is using a 308. Maybe there is something Gorings findings that RL17 acts differently in a larger full case. I did see that mentioned in a couple threads as I looked back thru this stuff.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/for...rature-variance-106606/index5.html#post959084