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Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by daveosok, Jun 21, 2005.
Will the 169.5, 6.5 mm bullets stabilize in a 1:8 twist?
Thanks in advance.
I do not know for sure. I will say it will probably depend on how fast you drive them. The 156 gr 257 ULD RBBT will stabilize in a 1-8 barrel but only at velocities above 3000 fps or so.
I will be building a 6.5 Allen Mag for my wife here soon for her 1000 yard chuckin rifle which will be on a heavy 1-8 Lilja so we will see what she does. This round will produce 3200 fps with this bullet pretty comfortably though.
What round and velocity will you be driving this bullet to? If your using a conventional 6.5 round like a 6.5-284 or 6.5-06 AI I would guess these will not stabilize in a 1-8 barrel but would not say for sure.
Stanger things have happened. Richard told me of a customer of his shooting his 142 gr 257 bullets in a 1-10 twist 25-06!!!
I would have bet a couple rifles those bullets would land full profile, instead I hear they are punching 1/2 to 3/4 moa groups!!! Not amazing but dramatically better then this set up should be able to produce.
Try some out and see!!
Buddy is going to use a 6.5 wsm.
My gut tells me no but I have been wrong before on some marginal twist rates with these bullets.
Richards 150 and 160 would probably be better choices and the 160 may still pose some problems.
Just depends on the true twist rate of the barrel. If this is a button pulled barrel I suspect it would be closer to 1-8.5 as they tend to be a bit slower twist then advertised.
It is for this reason that I had Dan Lilja tool up for twist rated 1" faster then what I needed for the Allen Mags with Richards bullets just to make sure I had enough spin.
Contact Richard and see what he thinks. He will be more then honest with you and will get you a bullet that will work best for this combo.
Not to derail this thread, but I was wondering if Richard has got his dies for the 300 grain .338 match bullets yet?
I was under the impression that he was going to send them out to me as soon as they were made and that was 3 months ago.
I would really like to see them! ANy word on problems or something?
Sending Richard an e-mail at firstname.lastname@example.org would be the quickest and easiest way to get an answer to your question. He's easy to get hold of and will answer any and all questions.
Last I talked with Richard on the phone about the 338 bullet issue he was knee deep in jacket supply orders not showing up.
I believe he told me he was 70,000 jackets behind for the 338s and his supplier just is not getting him the jackets.
As a result, Richard has been aggressively pushing for one of his other jacket suppliers to tool up for the 338 jackets and from my talk with him this sounded promising.
Would be very nice to as these would be heavy tapered jackets that would expand better at long range while still surviving close range impacts.
These are the same jackets he used for all the designs for the Allen Magnum bullets and I have been completely impressed with these bullets and their performance.
So as of right now its a jacket supply issue but I assure you Richard is doing everything he can to get the jackets he has on order as well as actively looking to contract for a more reliable supplier.
I am in the same boat as you. I have several boxes of the huge 350 gr ULDs but these are waiting for testing in my 338 Allen Mag which will be designed around this bullet.
Believe me, Richard is 10x more frustrated them any of us waiting for his bullets.
So Kirby,youve let the cat out of the bag (338 AM).How about some general info on this project? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
It will be big and fast /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif!!!
The reamer is on the way. When it gets here I will report on some specifics. Need to work out the sizing die issues first. Got the seater and neck sizer for formed cases, the Redding Comp set for the 338 Lapua will work as the sleeve in these dies is .688" in diameter compared to the normal .625" for other rounds, give me more room to ream them out to the very fat case.
More details soon, lets just say it will make my 338 Kahn look pretty silly and should easily be able to drive the 350 gr ULD BRRT Wildcat to 100 fps faster them the Kahn can drive the smaller 300 gr ULD!!!!
Kirby Allen (50)
Let me guess, A 338-408 cheytac improved. Holy crap kirby! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Something like that /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif!
I will give the specs of the test rifle, BAT Model L single shot, 2" diameter round, 10" long receiver.
Stock will be a McMillan LBR 50 weighted to a finish weight of 12 lbs and probably 75% purple-25% grape. Exactly like the butt on my Kahn and your MOAG. I really like that color!!
Barrel will be a Lilja 1.75" straight cylinder 1-10" stainless. I have not committed on a barrel length yet. Was thinking 38 or 40" but Dan only flutes to 34" lengths. I know the flutes are really only cosmetic on this massive barrel but they look pretty cool /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif!
I will machine a brake just like the one on my Kahn to tame any recoil.
Finished rifle wieght will be in the 35 lb range and then the bases, rings and scope. Recoil should not be a problem with a rifle this heavy but with a 350 gr ULD RBBT clipping along at hopefully near 3300 fps, I'll take the weight.
Everything but the stock and barrel are ordered. I will order the stock here next week when I decide for sure on the color. It will still be here before the receiver.
Dan will get me a barrel in only 8 weeks so I have some time on that one.
If all should come together by November. TO late for this chuckin season but just in time to have it ready to roll by next spring!!!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif It's good to hear that there was a problem with getting supplies for 338 bullets, I was begining to think I'd somehow offended Richard during our conversation a few months ago. I definately want to try his 300 gr. bullets in my Accumark. Also I'm interested in the 350 gr. hunting bullets for a night time Grizzly load.
I've finally paid all my bills for the rifle, scope, bullets, brass, powder, dies etc... I've been working 60-70/ week and the over time should last another couple of months. So it looks like fall before I can seriously do my load development.
I've been checking around locally and the BCRA, I'm a former member, has the use of a 600m range about 50 miles from my place. So generally things seem to be slowly falling into place. I knew this would take a while.
Fiftydriver: I'm just wondering. And, I'm new at this. Is'nt that gun, going to be one hell of a barrel burner?
There is only a couple ways to get a bullet out to 2000, 2500 and 3000 yards consistantly.
Some have done this with 308 Win rifles reportedly but as far as consistancy at these ranges and actually being able to accomplish a task when the bullet arrives on target I feel you need more.
The big 338 bore is suprisingly efficent espeically with these very heavy bullets. I will be using the ultra slow ball powders which burn cooler and are much less abrasive to the throat.
As far as expansion ratios go, this round will be less severe then my smaller Allen Magnums and for what it will be used for it will last several seasons.
Once the inital rifle is built an paid for, rebarreling is really not all that expensive. By that I mean, if I have to rebarrel the rifle every 5-6 seasons, and that would be if I shot it alot, that rebarreling price would be less then a factory rifle costs these days. That would be the price I would charge my customers.
The big price tag is in the initial complete rifle, stock, receiver, machining, barrel, reamer, bases, rings, scopes, muzzle brakes, dies.
After all that is paid for, a simple rebarrel job is s comparitive drop in the bucket for a brand new performing rifle!!!
Also realize that if I have a 38" straight cylinder barrel, I can set the barrel back an inch every 1500 rounds or so and basically get back to new barrel performance. Each time I do this it will be needed sooner and sooner but by the time I have the barrel cut back to 34", I will have alot of rounds though the barrel and then its off with the old and on with a new.