Remington Ultimate Load Thread

[TX COWDOC]

I recently picked up the Remington 700 Ultimate and am new to muzzleloading. I'd like to post my experiences here as well as pick up insights from experienced ML shooters. What turned me on to the weapon was the Remington 700 action and basic rifle 'look and feel'. Out of the box, the fit and finish of the rifle and Bell & Carlson M40 stock were very good.
Issue #1: Not a biggie, but mine only came with 1 fore stud while all pictures / promos for the rifle show 2 (as standard on M40 stock). I called Remington and they had not heard of this and said they would get back to me.

Issue #2: Trigger. The factory trigger came set at 5.5Lbs and would not decrease with adjustment. NOT ACCEPTABLE. I found a Timney #512 and installed it set at 2.75Lbs which is consistent with my other rifles.

What do you use to lube / clean between rounds? I've gotten a few bulging primers on the primed brass and have not exceeded recommended loads (4 pyrodex pellets).

thanks for any suggestions on loads / cleaning.

TX COWDOC

 

[Red Sparky]

Pyrodex Pellets? Everything I have read on the 700 says 200 grains of Triple 7. Pyrodex and Triple 7 are different powders. The burn rates are different so the Pyrodex may burn faster and give you excess pressure. Just like different rates of smokeless will give you different burn rates so 45 grains of powder x might be max load where 55 grains of powder y might be. I would make sure you follow the advice of the manufacture and build up max loads slowly.

As far as cleaning it depends on what powder you are shooting. Pyrodex cleans up fine with soap and water where BH 209 does fine with Hoppes.

 

[ENCORE]

I'll give a couple suggestions......

I'd back off the 200gr charge and shoot 3 - T7M pellets (180grs). Although some may shoot the 250gr bullets, a 300gr will stabilize better, especially at longer ranges if you intend to shoot them.

For cleaning and swabbing between shots, I recommend Butch's Black Powder Bore Shine. When using it to swab between shots, you want a VERY lightly damp patch, NOT a wet patch. Run it down the barrel, twist the rod, turn the patch over repeat then load. For cleaning, use a sacrificial piece of fired brass with the primer in the pocket, which will help keep the flame channel clean. Use Butch's with a wet patch, both sides and let the rifle set for a few minutes. I then use a nylon brush inside the barrel. One more wet patch both sides, then clean it out with dry patches until they come out clean. I lubricate with Barricade. For your action, just purchase a spray action cleaner. Remington makes one. Just remember..... that will displace ALL lubricants and you MUST re-lubricate. REMOVE THE STOCK AND SET IT ASIDE PRIOR TO USING THE ACTION CLEANER.

CLEAN THE ENTIRE FIREARM..... INCLUDING THE SCOPE AND STOCK. The smoke residue when shooting substitutes, will settle on everything. Cleaning off the scope, mounts, rings and stock is a MUST.

Its not unusual for the primer to slightly back out of the pocket on some pieces of brass. Its actually a head space issue and unless severe, in most cases "should not" create a severe issue. However, keep a close look of the inside of your cases for ANY gas leaking. If it starts leaking gas, do not re-prime and use that brass case again. There's much debate on just how many times the brass can be re-primed. I would suggest you examine each piece of brass after firing for any gas leak. I would suggest a primer pocket uniformer after de-capping your brass.

Just some suggestions.........

 

[Red Sparky]

Encore knows a lot more than I do. I did read last night that the primer will back out some no matter what load is used. Something with the design and the gas build up from primer ignition before powder ignition. Something to do with large flash hole and length but it is not a high pressure sign. I did also read you get lower velocities from Pyrodex than Triple 7. I can hardly wait until they get the BH 209 loads developed as they are getting the same velocities with less powder and lower pressures but they haven't published anything over 120 grains volume yet. The fun thing is to play and find the best load for your gun. The same with any muzzle loader.

 

[TX COWDOC]

Thank you both for your thoughtful responses. I will look for other signs of gas leaking and also do some further load development. I will report back with my results. Again,
your time is appreciated.
TX COWDOC

 

[ENCORE]

I had a brand new RU delivered by its owner to set up for him. He works insane hours and knows I shoot a Ultimate Firearms Inc. rifle and asked if I'd help him.

I couldn't get the factory lubricant, what ever it was, out of the barrel. After a lot of work, I finally had the majority of it out of the barrel. However, the inside of the barrel was full of tooling chatter. On his behalf, I called Remington and explained to the representative the issue. Long story short, he had to return his rifle to Remington. Now rather they'll just replace his barrel or, just send him back a new rifle, has yet to be determined. Remington does have the rifle and has informed him that they will "expedite" his repair.

He asked and it appears I'll still end up setting up his rifle when returned. I have no problem sharing data if you're interested. However, I will NOT be shooting BH209 from the rifle, but will be shooting Triple Seven and will NOT re-prime his brass over twice.

 

[slewis12]

BH209 in this ML is a touchy subject. Randy Wakeman and Bob Parker both use it in the RUML with great success and accuracy. Bob has stated to me several times of loads of 120 grains by weight not volume have been used with 300 grn match hunters but also note this load wasn't for recoil shy people. I myself have spent limited range time with my RUML with IMR white hots they shot the most accurate out of the pellets. I found them more uniform by weight than the others and paired them as such to obtain consistent loads by weight. I'm currently in transit back to Michigan from Africa and Bob has sent me 275 MH bullet for testing and to get data compiled. so I will have some load data and targets in a week or 2 depending on weather and hunting schedule for rabbits. How ever I believe Encore had a issue with BH in his michigan UML. I have spent some time talking with Remington about the no need to remove the plug they are swearing to the no need to remove it. So when I put mine back in the safe it was just swabbed with hoppes with photos taken with my bore scope for condition monitoring I will see how it looks since it has spent the last 10 weeks in my safe. I also ask Remington about BH they said it was fine to use in it as well but they were working on the loads with BH's manufacture and they will be published .In my personal opinion I'm not worried about using BH. I just worry about consistency of velocities and accuracy I'll shoot what ever shoots best after testing. But due note the RUML has a good thump with heavy charges. Yeah yeah I know encore the targets and all non confidential info I will post.

 

[Idaho Sawyer]

I am in the initial testing of my RUML, my gun justs seems to shoot ok, with the supplied remington bullets and sabots it is 2-3 moa and about the same with parker 300 MH's. I am shooting bh209 and have tested 90-105 grs (by weight). Is there any tricks of the trade for dialing in a ML? this is my first ML....so I am looking at from a centerfire viewpoint, I bedded the action and cant help but wonder about the harmonics with the ramrod. has anyone ever added a pressure point up front? thanks, Brent

 

[ENCORE]

I am in the initial testing of my RUML, my gun justs seems to shoot ok, with the supplied remington bullets and sabots it is 2-3 moa and about the same with parker 300 MH's. I am shooting bh209 and have tested 90-105 grs (by weight). Is there any tricks of the trade for dialing in a ML? this is my first ML....so I am looking at from a centerfire viewpoint, I bedded the action and cant help but wonder about the harmonics with the ramrod. has anyone ever added a pressure point up front? thanks, Brent

Don't shoot for groups with the ramrod in the rifle. I actually remove my thimble when shooting for groups.

I've discussed bullets with a lot of different shooters of the RU and UF rifles. Unless you're shooting at paper only, shoot a different bullet than the MH. Regardless, you can NOT get the velocity from a RU or UF rifle needed for that bullet to expand properly. Bob Parker will tell you that himself, as he owns and shoots both rifles.

Consistency is everything for long range tight groups. I'm a hunter turning target shooter and shooting 100 or even 200 isn't hard at all. However once you go beyond 200, things get much more complicated.
Use a comfortable and solid bench. Shooting off a lead sled is ok to test the rifle, but then move to just a front and rear rest. Finger placement on the trigger must be identical with each round fired. Tuck your free hand under your opposite armpit. Holding on to the forearm, especially trying to hold it down, will cause erratic groups. Its a good idea to purchase a PAST recoil pad. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0013R8J48/?tag=lrhmag19-20 It will definitely make your day of shooting much more pleasurable. Control when the trigger breaks. Myself I replaced the XMark Pro trigger with a Timney 512, and I've always preferred a light trigger. I couldn't group for squat with that XMark trigger. Just felt funny, to much creep and too heavy a pull (for me).
Shooting tiny little groups, no matter the distance with a muzzleloader takes a lot of practice. LOTS! I went through 3 and started on the 4th CASE of propellant last year. I still don't have the confidence I expect.
I suggested to one other RU shooter that he should try the 300gr SST in a Harvester H5045LB sabot. His groups tightened right up at 300.

Keep shooting and try to be consistent with everything. Trigger time builds accuracy and confidence.

 

[Idaho Sawyer]

I appreciate the feedback, I should have prefaced that I tuned the trigger and I use an atlas bipod and a rear bag shooting prone. I do a lot of shooting myself and load development for guys in my area (custom and semi custom center fire stuff). I tried groups without the ramrod and with the ramrod. (that is what got me thinking about harmonics). I have some Parker BE's on the way, if they don't shoot I will try the 300 SST's.
Is bh209 between 90-105 the right "window" or should I try 85-110?

thank you very much for the info, Brent

 

[slewis12]

I use 100 grains of BH 209 powder by weight and the 275 match hunting bullets from Parker. I have found 3 shots in between a swab results in consistant accuracy. From what I have seen in my RUML is 3 in. high at 100 yards 1/2moa and 2 in. high at 200 yards. Mine was ok with the 300MH's but not great, dropped to the 275MH's and it tightened up the groupings nicely. I have been meaning to get longer range groupings posted (been to busy traveling for work sorry Encore i haven't forgotten) I have a pretty open schedule now so I should have some here shortly. Buldged primers are a regular occurance for me as well as long as its still clean around the primer I wouldn't worry about that if it gets dirty pitch the brass, pocket is to loose. I used mine for every gun and ML season last year 3 deer shot none went more that 50 yards and dropped.

 

[ENCORE]

I tried the BE's and they just wouldn't group for me and the BP Xpress. I wanted so badly to shoot the Barnes 290gr T-EZ bullet, yet it wouldn't group either, which sucks, as Barnes are my favorite hunting bullet.

Here's an example of what you should be looking for with your brass. Inspect each piece after firing. If is shows signs of gas leaking, throw it out.

 

[Idaho Sawyer]

thanks fellas for the great info and the pics, I will keep you in the loop as things progress. Why I have you, I have one more question, I realize what the manual says and what the Remington lawyers say BUT has anyone tried smokeless? It seems with the amount of powder and pressure these guns are getting run at, a mild load of smokeless would be safe. Any thoughts?

 

[ENCORE]

thanks fellas for the great info and the pics, I will keep you in the loop as things progress. Why I have you, I have one more question, I realize what the manual says and what the Remington lawyers say BUT has anyone tried smokeless? It seems with the amount of powder and pressure these guns are getting run at, a mild load of smokeless would be safe. Any thoughts?

Absolutely not. No way.

One has to remember this whole system, even though it can handle a heavy charge of BP or BP substitute, was never designed even close to shoot smokeless. To my knowledge, Remington still hasn't listed loads in their manuals for BH209. IMO it would be and is very dangerous. Very different burn rates.....