Reloading Investment

Thanks for the information. I have bought almost everything I think I will need. The Hornady Classic came with a electronic scale. It should be ok for weighing everything or should I get something else?

Thanks Jack

My personal opinion is that two scales are a safety necessity. I have the same crappy Hornady scale you have, and it is typically +\- 0.2 gr from my beam scale, which is not bad. -BUT-

Once it measured 2grains low. Not sure why, but an extra 2 grains can be a big deal at a max load.

Once, I kept trickling into my beam scale and it just felt wrong. I double checked on my e-scale and it was an overcharge. Somehow the beam scale stuck on its bearing and gave me a weird reading.

The ability to double check charges is worth $80or $90 IMHO. I use both scales to validate set-up, will double check any charge that seems unusual (you'll know), and double check about every 10 loads to make sure nothing has gotten out of whack...
 
Jacktrude
Old departed friend Allen, God rest his soul, had a custom Mauser in 22/250 that I reloaded ammo for him (he was a quadriplegic). He had a Lee Basic w/ plastic mallet and a wood block. Neck size only and seated the primers by pushing down against the block. The powder charge was fill the case w/ Surplus 4831 and scrape the excess off and seat a Speer 55gr Flat Base Spitzer on top. Every round, not just five or so, went into <1". That Lee and a scale can get you started as it has for thousands of others before you. That is the cheapest route. By the way, I have one in 45/70 that I polished the neck portion w/ 400, 800, and 2000 grit sandpaper that I field load trial loads for that gun right at the shooting bench.
Now if they just made it in 375Ruger.....
 
I appreciate that.

In your shooting experience will you do better with more accurate shots using a heavier bullet say 190 grain compared to a 168 grain at 1000 yards?
 
Jachtrude

The closer in weight your bullet is to the stability limit of your rifleing twist rate the more form stable the bullet is @ long range. 22cal-55gr ideal twist is 1-14. 30cal-220gr is 1-10 etc. If you spin it too fast the bullet will lurch somewhere down range as it corrects its aerodynamic path with its spin stabilized direction. This is an over simplification of a complex subject. The lurch doesn't happen at the exact same range in the exact same amount for every shot so it causes dispersion. 308 target loads went to 168gr (an odd weight) to adjust for its 1-12 twist. Optimaly stabilized bullets adjust aerodynamicaly in a constant rate so they follow the ideal low drag point on path all the way to the target. No lurch. 556Nato went to 80gr bullets for extreme ranges to compinsate for the 1-7 twist.

Bottom line: heavy good, light bad. Heavy for caliber slugs= high BC. When the weight starts dragging the velocity down there is a comprimise. Use a ballistic program to run the "what ifs".

Hope this helps but whole books have been written about it. Can't hope to cover it here.
 
Boomtube

E. Ezell's book "The Great Rifle Controversy" covers it pretty well. Eugene Stoner designed the AR 15 w/ 1-14 twist. Lousy powder (Too much Tums left over from the acid neutralizing process- ten times what was acceptable in the 308/ WC844) almost got Winchester execs tossed in jail. Same powder that jammed the guns in Viet Nam was excessively slow and highly variable in velocity in Arctic conditions. Huge controversy at the time but the Brass said "tighten the twist to 1-12" when the ballisticians asked to improve the powder. Twist went to 1-12. Over-stabilized bullets quit tumbling and punched a clean hole through the enemy. Legendary killing power of the dreaded "Black Rifle" goes away.
NATO accepts the 556 and wants better hard penetration. 1-12 stabilizes 62gr M855 just fine but bullets punch 3mm plate @ 500m better when over-stabilized @ 1-7. NATO adopts 1-7 twist to punch steel. AMU shooters are then stuck shooting the mouse gun with a 1-7 twist, way more than required even for 69gr match bullets that require only 1-10. No issued ammo in 556 requires a 1-7 twist, even the SS109/M855 62gr pill will stabilize @ 1-12, barely. The APT tracer ammo that has a very long bullet stabilizes in 1-10.
The 80gr Match loads are so long they will not feed up from the mag and must be single loaded, not something desirable in today's combat. That's why I stated 1-7 twist came first and 80gr bullets to match that twist came after.
It's a sore spot for me because some of the names engraved on the black wall of the Viet Nam Memorial got there because of this. Nobody payed for that. Those lost aren't coming back.
I'm not barking at anyone. Part of me still hurts at the thought.
 
Mainly looking to reload for 1000 yards or better. And over the counter for this type ammo is large so I am also looking to save money over the long term. Not looking for large volumes just percision and more kick.

good luck in the saving money dept. I just retired and hope to start reloading soon myself. As to date I bought a rcbs 6 hole turret press kit 450.00, rcbs dies for .223, 308, 38sp, 9mm and redding die for 380 auto ( everything was backorded so I bought redding, total cost of dies approx 225.00 shell holders 20.00, hornaday tumbler and sonic cleaner 130.00, hornaday case trimmer 70.00 and by the way the rcbs shell holders do not fit the hornaday case trimmer so I had to buy hornaday shell holders, another 25.00 (everyone can start laughing if you have not already) do not forget the cost of the pilots for the case trimmer, I forgot the cost of those. I also bought an extra 6 hole turret head (50.00) so I can set my dies up and not have to re-adjust all the time, I do not recall the price for the several thousand bullets, 16lbs of powder, 15000 primers , small pistol, small rifle, large rifle, and a few misc. items. I had no idea when I started this venture but I sure am enjoying it. Have fun:D
 
Not going to save money but you will produce a superior product. I've got about 6k into my reloading and love everything about it.

On the lighter side:(I see I have a long ways to go). yes a much better product not to mention the possibility of improvement on the range and or hunt.
 
How much would it cost to buy a new car so you could drive from Santa Monica to Boston? Answer: Most anything would get that accomplished and would get you there just as well if you drove the same. Granted, how easy the ride may be would vary a bit but the goal itself would be accomplished just as well with most anything available. The most basic of reloading gear - which is quite good - will make good ammo. How well you may be able to hit with it at 1K yards is another question and that matters too.

It will take you quite awhile to learn to reload as well as normal dies, presses and components allow and no money thrown at costly purchases is going to produce instant skill and understanding for the difficult task you're aiming at. Get basic stuff and learn to use it; by the time you learn how to use standard gear as well as it can be used you'll have enough personal experience to make your own choices without asking such questions on the web. Three-four hundred bucks should get you off to a good start, add more stuff when you need it.

What you don't need ... well, you don't need a lot of what you may be told. You won't need a digital scale or a digital powder dumpster to dispense powder with precision. You don't need steel pins and a wet tumbler to keep your cases in good shape. You don't need case neck turners or high dollar case trimmers or primer pocket uniformers to start with. You'll never need expensive professional machinist grade micrometers and calipers. You sure won't need costly "competition" dies and shell holders or extra bullet crimpers or high cost priming tools to start. Nor do you need costly cases; Remington/Winchester bulk brass is better than you'll be for a long while and you'll have to get way up the learning curve before any of that matters; learn on the less costly cases before you even think of buying the imported stuff.

Great info! In highschool I bought the RCNS Rockchucker kit. 20+ years later I still use every single part of it and it has served me well except for the old school tube feed primer system. I think the newer kits include the hand priming tool which I also use. One thing you will want is a bullet puller! For dies I've always done fine with RCBS but recently loading ETIPS in my .308 about 10% of my Win cases did not have enough tension. The only fix I've found was the Hornady match dies and a smaller bushing to increase neck tension. That is the one die I would spend more money on. The micrometer bullet seating dies would be nice too but I've never had one and do fine.

Now the reality. Good luck finding components particularly for those two cartridges. They have to be the two most popular cartridges in the US right now.

Forget the cost savings. As has been said it takes a lot of time to reload. If you spend a ton of money on progressives and digital powder dispensers you can save some time at the expense of a lot of money that could have been spent on components and shooting! For me getting time to go to the range is much harder than time to reload. I can reload in the dead of night. It's relaxing and you get to be involved with your shooting hobby at times you otherwise couldn't. Finally you will be capable if building the perfect load for your rifle and the particular task you are asking it to do.
 
Great info! In highschool I bought the RCNS Rockchucker kit. 20+ years later I still use every single part of it and it has served me well except for the old school tube feed primer system. I think the newer kits include the hand priming tool which I also use. One thing you will want is a bullet puller! For dies I've always done fine with RCBS but recently loading ETIPS in my .308 about 10% of my Win cases did not have enough tension. The only fix I've found was the Hornady match dies and a smaller bushing to increase neck tension. That is the one die I would spend more money on. The micrometer bullet seating dies would be nice too but I've never had one and do fine.

Now the reality. Good luck finding components particularly for those two cartridges. They have to be the two most popular cartridges in the US right now.

Forget the cost savings. As has been said it takes a lot of time to reload. If you spend a ton of money on progressives and digital powder dispensers you can save some time at the expense of a lot of money that could have been spent on components and shooting! For me getting time to go to the range is much harder than time to reload. I can reload in the dead of night. It's relaxing and you get to be involved with your shooting hobby at times you otherwise couldn't. Finally you will be capable if building the perfect load for your rifle and the particular task you are asking it to do.
thanks for helping me spend more money. I will order thte bullet puller asap. I recommend any one starting out to do thier homework. Hornady has a micrometer
that fits thier dies, which woud be really nice.
 
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