Reloading equipment

[Ian M]

SR90
If you want complete reliability, fantastic factory support and accuracy, buy an Oehler 35P. If you are inclined to delve deaper, need to know chamber pressures, time of flight, BC's and don't mind having stuff glued to your rifle - buy the Oehler 43 (needs to have a laptop, get the accoustic mic's while you are at it). If you have an indoor rifle range and can afford the best, then the Oehler 83 and while you are at it, a universal receiver pressure gun (talking in the tens of thousands of dollars, needs a computer and preferably a printer and acoustic mic's - can tell you velocity of each round fired in a machine-gun burst). If you just plain have too much money and need the ultimate toy, get a Doppler chronograph - it will tell you how fast you are walking when you go to check your targets, no screens, needs a computer & printer - about 100 big ones.
Or you could buy a Micky-Mouse unit and end up getting a 35P later.

 

[Nicholas]

Darryl comes through again!

Everyone has given a lot of great info, thanks guys.

Looks like I'll be getting the Rockchucker press, redding comp dies, Oehler 35P (the other seem somewhat excessive for now Ian

). I am still undecided on case trimmer, and neck turner (I think I will get a Wilson or K&M case trimmer, however the Forster looks good because it can do both). Are handheld neck turner very good? Or, would I be suited with a bench mounted one?

[ 01-06-2002: Message edited by: sr90 ]

 

[Dan Conzo]

SR90
I agree with Darryl about the presses--you can't beat an arbor press with Wilson type hand dies for seating bullets, but for sizing the bigger cases (especially full length) most arbor presses (made for reloading) spring too much to maintain concentricity, but you can't beat the compound leverage presses like the Rockchucker (or equivalents), the Ultra Mag and the Bonanza Co-Ax (with large yoke) using bushing sizers, lapped sizers and body dies.

Dan

 

[Nicholas]

Dan, What would you estimate the difference in accuracy would be at 100 & 200 yards between arbor press loads and Conventional press (Rockchucker) loads (both with excellent match dies ofcourse)?

 

[Dan Conzo]

sr90

I really don't know what the difference would be at those ranges but at 1000 yds you should keep your concentricity within .001" which is hard to do sometimes with the best set-ups but you can feel the spring in most of the common arbor presses and light duty conventional presses (7/8x14 die type).
If you use the Forster for neck turning make sure your pilot is only slightly smaller (under .001") than your expander or the I.D. of your neck (if you don't use an exp), also buy an extra stop collar (or make one) and put it directly behind the ONT attachment on the cutter shaft and lock it in place after you determined where you want the cutter to stop in relation to the shoulder junction, then you can take off the ONT attachment for cleaning out brass and lubing pilot. Remember that if you are turning long cases (300 Wby, etc) that this trimmer should be bought with the long base not the standard.
The hand turners work well too, epecially the K&M with a power driver.

Dan

 

[Ian M]

90,
If and when you order an Oehler I suggest that you also get the tripods and carrying case at the same time - plus at least one extra complete Skyscreen and 2 extra Skyscreen bodies and 2 or 3 diffuser tops and side bars - that way you can keep going after you put one of your new handloads a little low and you see some plastic flying about.

Pretty sure you can order direct from Oehler, they are the friendliest folk in the industry.

 

[Coyoter]

My .02...
I have it on excellent authority that "the Only" way to reload is with an arbor press and Niel Jones hand dies. The press is about $110, the dies $200. Niel is on the internet and you can find a link to him off of benchrest.com. Sinclair Int. has the presses.
That said, I use a Hornady 007 without the "Lock & Load" feature. It's essentially a red Rock Chucker.
I use Redding Competition Dies for anything I want to be really accurate.
I can't say enough good things about the Hornady hand primer... It's well made and consistant. If you don't mind feeding primers into the hand tool one at a time with tweezers, the Sinclair tool is awsome.
A "must have" for any serious handloader is the RCBS Case Master. It measures neck and bullet runout, case head separation and neck thickness. The runout measurement is invaluable for die setup. The case head separation measurement for case/chamber life.
The Forster case trimmer with the neck turning attachment for those two functions. The RCBS model has too much flex to give consistant trims, and the Sinclair neck turner is too slow compaired to the Forster with a Skill Twist attached.
10-10 scale, but I'll go digital one of these years.
RCBS powder trickler (manual).
Stoney Point Comparitor with inserts for the calibers you shoot is a must.
I'd also recommend at least 3 (4-6 would be better) reloading manuals. Sierra, Nosler, the two part Hornady. Even better is the line of One Book, One Caliber (or however they say it) available from Cabela's. Those books, don't have every bullet/powder combination available for say, 30-06. But man do they try! With the load information they list, you can extrapolate data for just about anything you'd care to try.
Which measure I use is unimportant. I hand weigh every charge.
Hornady Bullet puller that mounts in your press. Those kinetic jobs give me the willies.
RCBS case prep station with the Lee accessory kit installed on it. Yes, you can do your camforing (camphoring?) and deburring, and such with hand tools... but not once you've used this little gem!
One last (quick?) comment. If the range is too far away from you to build loads at home and then drive to shoot them, consider setting up a range box with the equipment you need and setting it up on a Work Mate. I use a Lee Hand Press and a tackle box with my goodies in it to save on that long (8 minute) drive. It allows me to develope loads based on what I see down range rather than going home to pull bullets and start over.
Good Shooting, Coyoter

 

[308]

As to diffs between arbor presses and good 7/8x 14 dies I have seen no benefit with my rifles. If you have a rifle that will consistantly shoot less than 3/8 @ 100 yds the straitline dies and arbor presses may have some merit. Of course a better shooter might see some diff with my guns but I haven't.
For a jam up 1st rate high quality case trimmer, the wilson is the best I've found.
It's like a mini lathe and cuts perfectly square and will hold tolerances to less than .001.
I have Reddings Ultra Mag single stage press and it is a brute but is a precision piece of equipment.
If I had it to do again I probably wouldn't have bought the Arbor press and strait line dies and just stayed with competiton quality 7/8 x 14 dies. They are handy for bullet seating though. 308

 

[Lostsheep]

sr90,
The sinclair setup is very nice.
What you have to realize though is that it will not absolutely replace a conventional reloading press. As the press will only handle neck sizing(what you want). You will need to run your brass through a shoulder bump or even a full length die every so often, as the case becomes difficult to chamber. Because everything in this setup is inline, accuracy is outstanding. I shoot a 30X44 in a HBR gun that shoots in the high .3's.
Also the main benifit of this system other than accuracy is that you can load at the range. Go to the range load 5 and try them. then try 5 more.
its all good!

 

[Nicholas]

Ian, sounds like chronographs get shot up alot? LOL I make sure and get some extra parts then.

Coyoter, could you elaborate on how to tweak the dies so I get .0000 runout? What do you do the the dies to change the runout?

What neck turner to you guys use? Do you turn your necks?

 

[Lostsheep]

I have been using the sinclair Phase I neck turning tool.
This is very simple for the beginner, and works well. It is not designed for a high volume though.
When I get another it will probably go with a sinclair again, but either a Phase II or III
I don't like to turn necks under power, I do them all by hand, less chance of getting things out of wack that way!

 

[Ian M]

SR90,
I suggest getting spares just in case it does happen. In reality that is not likely since you have a nice large fan-shaped area to shoot throught, BUT, if you do make a mistake it is nice to fix things that evening rather than having to call Texas for parts. Skyscreens are very easy to assemble, parts are cheap.

Only real nasty that can happen is damaging the little "eye" sitting in the bottom of the screen body, or snipping a wire were it goes into the body - done both.

Most abuse on my screens comes from muzzleloader sabots - they chew up the plastic a lot. Not hard to dream up a protective baffle or shield tho.

 

[Nicholas]

Does anyone have some tips to reduce runout, coyoter said something about tweaking the dies?

 

[Coyoter]

I guess I'll add that with proper setup, you can get .001" bullet runout (or less) with the Redding Comp. dies, and that's what the whole hand die and arbor press thing boils down to. You'll have to sit and tweak the dies and/or shell holder to find the sweet spot, but it can be done and far more easily than with a set of factory dies. The biggest factor is setting up your neck die to .000" runout to the best of your ability. Any runout in the neck will be magnified by the bullet. This is where the RCBS Casemaster is so invaluable. You set the neck die, measure a case for neck runout, size it, meaure it again and adjust. Idealy, the brass is "perfect" before you size it, but sometimes (especially with virgin brass) its not. Get another piece of brass and repeat untill you have no runout. If you're using the Redding Comps, you should be able to achieve it. If your gun is taking .0005" neck runout and turning it into .002" brass, ditch the barrel (or at least a few inches of it!).
A quick note about the case trimmers, and I've never used the Wilson. What I like about the Forster with the power adaptor is that you hold the power on and only have to concentrate on how much pressure you apply to the trimmer. For me, it's a challenge to turn a crank and maintain consistant pressure on the cutter. Mostly, I tend to "gorilla" things to make them go faster and that's not what's best in most handloading situations. With the neck turning attachment, there's a ramped insert for your trimmer that will gradually walk the turner down the case neck. Again, I find it easier to be consistant if one hand simply holds the power on, while the other feeds the turner down the neck.
Coyoter