Reloader 26 in 6.5 creedmoor

[Bowfishn]

Does the use of RL26 in the 6.5 Creedmoor necessitate using large rifle magnum primers or standard primers ?
I see that Peterson Brass Co. produces 6.5 Creedmoor brass in both large primer pocket and small primer pocket configuration . Their website recommends the use of the small primer pocket brass if you expect to run pressure in excess of SAAMI specifications , as the brass will be stronger at the base and web . Will a small rifle primer have sufficient power to reliably ignite and fully burn a full case of RL26 propelling an ELD-M 147 gr. bullet from a 28" barrel ?
All comments are welcome .
Thank you ,
DMP25-06

I have used Large rifle, BR2 and Magnum LR primers in my 6.5 CM rifles, some loads shoot better with mag primers some do not.
I am puzzled why any manufacturer would list any product that would be recommended for shooting over SAAMI specs in a 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

[Pdvdh]

I am puzzled why any manufacturer would list any product that would be recommended for shooting over SAAMI specs in a 6.5 Creedmoor.

Visit their website. They don't suggest loading to a higher pressure. They do say if you plan to load to a higher pressure (and many reloaders load cases to whatever pressure the case head will endure), that their small rifle primer brass will survive higher pressure better than their large rifle primer 6.5 cases.

Puzzle about it no longer.

 

[Bowfishn]

Then it is not over SAAMI pressure, just if you are planning on loading up to max pressures then use the small primer as it takes it better.
I really was not puzzled, I just wanted to clear it up for others that may think it is ok to exceed SAAMI pressure in the Creedmoor if you used their brass with small primers.

 

[DBoone]

So it seems I'm not the only one experiencing this, but I recently loaded up some 135 Berger Classic Hunters with Reloader 26 and I had higher then expected velocities (according to Berger Load Data). This was a fairly small sample size (8 rounds) but I thought I would report what I saw anyways and maybe ask for some QL help (Bowfishn??).

Brass was fine until 49.3 grains, which gave me light ejector marks on both pieces of brass, with the primers getting fairly flat. Bolt lift was average.
At 49.5 grains I only had a very faint ejector mark on one piece of brass, with all the other indicators being the same.

Now I'm assuming I'm pushing the limits on pressure, so I'm looking at possible solutions:
Decreasing my charge weight... but how much?
Getting rid of the magnum primer... sounds like BR2's are working well for guys.
Increasing my bullet jump... more distance to rifling = how much less pressure?


Cartridge: 6.5mm Creedmoor
Bullet: .264, 135 grain, Berger Classic Hunter Part#26571 (O.A.L 1.325")
Empty Case Capacity: 53.6 grains H2O (Hornady brass fire formed to my rifle)
C.O.A.L: 2.861" (approx 0.011" off lands)
Barrel Length: 22"
Primers: Federal Large Rifle Magnum

Powder is Alliant Reloader 26 (Lot# 08516Z121316) and I've run two rounds each, at four different charge weights, over my Magneto and these are the velocities (two shot average).

48.9 grains- 2967 FPS
49.1 grains- 2983 FPS
49.3 grains- 3016 FPS
49.5 grains- 3024 FPS

Outside temperature was -2*C


Dan

 

[Barrelnut]

Berger has load data now for the 135 Hunter and RL26. Below is the link. They went to max of 49.8 Gr RL26 at 105% load density for 2977 FPS from a 24" barrel. (Guessing they were using Hornady brass.)

I would drop the magnum primer for sure. No need for it at that case capacity. It may be contributing to the exceptional speed you are getting out of the 22" barrel though. It might not be the best for ES/SD and accuracy in the end though. If you change primers you could probably get to the 49.8 Gr. Berger was using. If you seat a little closer to the lands, you might get even a little more RL26 in there....

Thanks for posting these results. I have a new 6.5 CM barrel 24", some RL26, and some 135 Hunters on the way. Gonna be trying it all out next month.

Link to berger load data: http://www.bergerbullets.com/pdf/6.5-Creedmoor-135gr.pdf

Will add that there is a lot of speculation that Berger load data is really just QL data and their load data has been somewhat conservative in the past.... Work up to it though and remember - accuracy rules in the end.

 

[Capt RB]

I have a good load for ws2 coated bullets with 26 and 147's. I have single digit es with 215's The 210's are not as fast and es is closer to 20fps. It shoots well at 100yds but even just 300yds I see more vertical than I do with 215's @500yds. For the slow powder and heavy bullets in my gun that is what it is. On another thread Someone replied about once fired shooting much faster. I didn't see this because I went from uncoated in testing to coated. It will lose 140-150fps in new brass. This is why I didn't notice it in once fired. My velocities were close to the same. That kept me in my node and had it not been mentioned I don't know when that light bulb would have turned on otherwise. In my rifle I will be dropping down from 47.3 to 46.5in peterson brass.
If running naked bullets 45.5 runs really well in both norma and peterson brass. I didn't run any 147's naked in once fired brass. I did run 142's with 4955 and hit pressure way sooner than I thought I would. I have to do more testing of that stuff before I can comment on it. I pulled 150 loaded rounds after I dropped my shooting bag mixing everything up. I knew I had some too hot 4955 loads with 147's and had no way of knowing what was what after my bag ripped and scattered everything.

 

[CaptnC]

Tagging in...

Like Barrelnut I have parts coming...6.5CM 26" barrel, die set, R-26, BR-2 primers 150 pieces of brass and Berger 130gr Tactical Match and Berger 135 Elite Hunter...in hand...be nice if my receiver gets here next week.

 

[Obie458]

Bowfishn, I was wondering if you could run some QL data for my setup. I'm new to RL 26 and I'm interested in giving it a try. I'll be trying 140 Nosler RDF at a col of 2.845" and the 147 eldm at a col of 2.835". This would be in Nosler 6.5 creedmoor brass with Winchester large rifle primers. My barrel length is 28". Thanks.

 

[Bowfishn]

Bowfishn, I was wondering if you could run some QL data for my setup. I'm new to RL 26 and I'm interested in giving it a try. I'll be trying 140 Nosler RDF at a col of 2.845" and the 147 eldm at a col of 2.835". This would be in Nosler 6.5 creedmoor brass with Winchester large rifle primers. My barrel length is 28". Thanks.

Ok this is based off the default ba with RL26 and H2O of 52.7 with Nosler Brass, you need to watch velocity and for pressure signs to know what is happening with your lot of powder. Signs of pressure do not always show until you are over the 70,000 psi mark.
Remember to start low and I mean at the lowest listed charge as your lot could vary + or - 10%
a safe load could easily be over max if your lot has a 10% higher ba, burn rate.
My highest Ba so far has been 5% over the default of 0.3397 and my current 12 lbs of RL26 is running 2.5% higher.

140 RDF

Cartridge : 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady
Bullet : .264, 140, Nosler RDF HPBT 26725
Useable Case Capaci: 46.010 grain H2O = 2.987 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.845 inch = 72.26 mm
Barrel Length : 28.0 inch = 711.2 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-26

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.415% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-04.1 101 46.20 2881 2580 49650 8907 100.0 1.409
-03.7 102 46.40 2894 2604 50444 8918 100.0 1.399
-03.3 102 46.60 2907 2627 51253 8928 100.0 1.389
-02.9 103 46.80 2920 2651 52076 8938 100.0 1.379
-02.5 103 47.00 2933 2675 52917 8947 100.0 1.369
-02.1 104 47.20 2946 2699 53770 8957 100.0 1.360 ! Near Maximum !
-01.7 104 47.40 2959 2723 54644 8966 100.0 1.350 ! Near Maximum !
-01.2 104 47.60 2972 2747 55532 8975 100.0 1.341 ! Near Maximum !
-00.8 105 47.80 2985 2771 56440 8984 100.0 1.332 ! Near Maximum !
-00.4 105 48.00 2998 2795 57364 8993 100.0 1.322 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 106 48.20 3011 2819 58306 9002 100.0 1.313 ! Near Maximum !
+00.4 106 48.40 3024 2843 59267 9010 100.0 1.304 ! Near Maximum !
+00.8 107 48.60 3037 2867 60245 9018 100.0 1.295 ! Near Maximum !
+01.2 107 48.80 3050 2892 61244 9027 100.0 1.286 ! Near Maximum !
+01.7 107 49.00 3063 2916 62264 9034 100.0 1.277 ! Near Maximum !
+02.1 108 49.20 3076 2941 63302 9042 100.0 1.268 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 106 48.20 3141 3067 74333 8541 100.0 1.204 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 106 48.20 2806 2448 45505 9363 97.7 1.459


147 ELD-M

Cartridge : 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady
Bullet : .264, 147, Hornady ELD-M 26333
Useable Case Capaci: 45.918 grain H2O = 2.981 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.835 inch = 72.01 mm
Barrel Length : 28.0 inch = 711.2 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-26

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.422% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-04.2 100 45.40 2808 2574 49228 8793 100.0 1.446
-03.8 100 45.60 2821 2597 50015 8805 100.0 1.436
-03.4 101 45.80 2834 2621 50818 8816 100.0 1.426
-03.0 101 46.00 2846 2644 51633 8827 100.0 1.417
-02.5 102 46.20 2859 2668 52465 8838 100.0 1.407
-02.1 102 46.40 2871 2691 53314 8849 100.0 1.397
-01.7 102 46.60 2884 2715 54178 8860 100.0 1.387 ! Near Maximum !
-01.3 103 46.80 2897 2738 55053 8870 100.0 1.377 ! Near Maximum !
-00.8 103 47.00 2909 2762 55955 8881 100.0 1.368 ! Near Maximum !
-00.4 104 47.20 2922 2786 56868 8891 100.0 1.358 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 104 47.40 2934 2810 57802 8901 100.0 1.349 ! Near Maximum !
+00.4 105 47.60 2947 2834 58750 8911 100.0 1.339 ! Near Maximum !
+00.8 105 47.80 2959 2858 59721 8921 100.0 1.330 ! Near Maximum !
+01.3 105 48.00 2971 2882 60708 8930 100.0 1.321 ! Near Maximum !
+01.7 106 48.20 2984 2906 61716 8939 100.0 1.312 ! Near Maximum !
+02.1 106 48.40 2996 2930 62743 8949 100.0 1.303 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 104 47.40 3056 3048 73666 8460 100.0 1.238 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 104 47.40 2741 2453 45041 9309 98.2 1.498

 

[Prieto9000]

Tag

 

[Obie458]

Thank Bowfishn, those estimated velocities are pretty impressive. I'll probably start at 46 gr and load up to 48gr and see how it goes. Both bullets are new to me so I don't have a benchmark for accuracy. Hopefully I can come up with a nice consistent and accurate load.
I'm new to the world of long range shooting. 300 yards is the furthest I've ever shot to date but a 1,000 yard range just opened in my area so I'm looking forward to giving it a try. Currently I've had my best results with the 130's. Both the 130 VLDs and eldm soot great in my gun. They both like 42.5 gr H4350 and a .03 jump and both shoot well under a half inch at 100 yards. I know at extended range having a higher BC can make a big difference in wind drift so I'm hoping I can get the 147 eldm or 140 rdf to shoot well.

 

[Bowfishn]

Using RL26 my best results have been with Hornady ELD bullets out of both my 6.5 CM rifles. For some reason I could never get as good a result with the Nosler 140 RDF or 142 ABLR . I have also tried 130 JLK bullets with less than stellar results. My new project is using Nosler 140 Custom Competition bullets, so far with RL26 I have not seen anything I would call outstanding, these bullets are to be used in 200 yard egg shoots so I do not need the extra velocity RL26 has to offer. I am getting ready to test H4350 with them and see how that works. I believe there is a spot where Optimum Charge weight and Optimum Barrel Timing come together and that changes with different powders and bullets. If they both come together at the same time is when I believe the accuracy is at it's best. That is just my unproven opinion at this time.

 

[coop2564]

I've been testing the RL26 for weeks now using my Bergara 6.5 HMR 22'' barrel. Accuracy has been really good especially at longer range. I've shot mostly .4 to .7moa 2861fps @72 degrees using 143 ELDx at 47.3 at 100yds, but at 300yds some 1"groups and some 2" at 500yds not all have been that good but some when I do my part. I've settled at 47.3 to make sure I'm not to high on pressure at 90 degrees. My gun just does not seem to have a node that matters to the gun, it shoots .5 moa with any charge I've tried and also with 3 different factory loads. And my cold bore round is dead on with hot bore. I've never owned a gun this tolerant and accurate thru such a wide range of conditions. Not sure its the gun so much as the caliber tho. My SIL's 6.5 CM a el cheapo Axis also shoots .5moa with factory loads. RL26 can add 150 to 200yds of killing energy to your guns over standard factory speeds of 2700. I have 1000 lbs out to 850 and enough velocity to open bullet to 950 from the CM. That's better than my .270win.

 

[Preacher2005]

Rl26 is good powder. I have been doing some load workups and have found that the my gun likes 135's, and 140's berger's. With the 143eldx back it of to about 2810-2820, you should see a node around there. My pet load with 135's .225 moa 2974... shot it out to 1275yrds....